ANOTHER new engine for the Pop

Jonny69 · 22-09-2008, 15:30

That's right folks we're up to engine number 4 in the Pop! Unfortunately the old one expired at Retro Rides Gathering '08 due to a bit of punishment that month. It was a combination of things, firstly it was the motorway miles that month (which killed the engine last time), some extra go faster goodies I'd put on that let the car do 80mph instead of 60mph (and I kept pushing it), a trip round the track at the Hotrod Hayride and finally some immature behaviour in the carpark at RRG08. It developed a bit of a knock which turned into a nasty knock and I decided to call the tow truck... Karma huh?

A chappie on Retro Rides is local to me and just bought a secret new project and it happened to be powered by an E93A sidevalve of some sort. It had an Aquaplane inlet and exhaust but a 'Y' stamped on the head, that meant it could be the smaller 900cc engine or the 1172cc with a Y head, basically unknown because I don't know how to read the block numbers. It turned over and had compression which meant the valves weren't stuck, but we didn't get it to start. I decided to take a risk with it because I need an engine to get me back on the road, so recommended Mart put the Aquaplane kit on eBay and I made an offer on the block.

I won't be building this one up like I have done in the past and I don't intend to strip it completely so I'm going to risk the bottom end, but I did want to take a look at the top end because it's a visual indicator of the general condition, and in case it was going to burn any oil. With the head off I can see it's dry in the bores with a little soot as expected. Exhaust ports are the same, no oily deposits and the valve stems feel reasonable clean. There's no rust around the valves which means the engine has been in the dry. Bores are shiny but no step at the top:

Unfortunately I sheared one stud so the easy outs will have to come out again:

It also looks like it was full of coolant when it was left and it's evaporated away over the years because the engine is full of crust which will need to be flushed out. It's a bit thin in places and I'm hoping it isn't going to leak or hasn't gone porous. This is what I scraped out the pipe alone:

Back up to the top a quick eyeball tells me that it's the 1172cc engine (which I wanted) and I think it's been rebored +30thou. I'll have to measure up to double check but it will be handy if it is because one problem I have with my other engine is it's not on the standard bore so I can't just steal the pistons out another engine when I break it. The 030 here should tell me it's +30thou or +0.75mm in new money:

So basically it looks like this block is useable. Without knowing the condition of the bottom end it could last 2000 miles or 20,000 miles, but this is just to get me out of trouble and I'm going to be a bit more sympathetic with this one on the motorway...

One thing I will have to do is block this hole up. The previous owner ran a heater off a tapping in the block waterway. This was not original and my heater runs off the top hose so I'll be plugging it with a plate, weld or I'll tap a bolt into it:

Next job is a quick measure up to double check everything and have a quick look at the valve train. Turning it over by hand it looks like it's got a standard cam which I'll leave in there because it's a lot of work to swap it over and it will help prolong the life of this engine.

Jonny69 · 22-09-2008, 15:31

I had a measure up and it's definitely an 1172cc engine and the cam is stock. It's got its stock solid lifters, didn't check the clearances but I can't adjust them anyway, and all the valves close satisfactorily. Since I'm not putting the high lift cam in I am going to put on my mega compression head. It was well snotted up with oil and carbon from the old dead engine but a quick cleanup and it's come up nicely:

I had to get some new easy outs for the snapped stud, typical, can never find the tools you need, but the new ones were much better quality than the old ones. As it happens I couldn't get it out anyway so I've drilled it and I'll run a tap down it to chase the thread through. I can see where the thread starts so I should be able to pick up the old thread quite easily:

The distributor rotor arm had about 10 degrees of play in it, no good for smooth running, so I checked where the play might be. The rotor arm itself had a little play in it but not much, most of the play was in this slotted shaft that drives the distributor:

An old trick is to pinch the ends so they are tight on the two drive dogs, which I did with a quick crank in the vice:

I don't want ANY play at all so I squeeze them tight enough that they need a little tap to get them on the drive dogs. The distributor will need the same when I put it back in this hole:

I drove the engine over to a new best friend who has all the imperial taps and I tried to get that stud hole ready to re-use.

Jonny69 · 22-09-2008, 15:34

Failed hard trying to get the stud out, where it wasn't drilled very straight the tap was struggling to pick up a thread and was going in at a nasty angle, so...

Got me one of these helicoil kits from Cromwell Tools:

Basically everything there in one box I needed and with the tap wrench it came to about £35 delivered. Drilled it out using the head as a guide, retapped it with my slightly larger than expected tap wrench and I now have this lovely helicoil insert instead of a mashed up hole:

I'll post a full how-to article because it was really easy to do if you take a few precautionary steps and I can guarantee we'll all break a stud or bolt at some point and not be able to get it out

Jonny69 · 22-09-2008, 15:34

I took some advice off some guys on the HAMB and re-did the helicoil. It should be in further than I did it (about one whole thread) and as a precaution you should slightly countersink the top thread to stop it lifting when the stud/bolt is tightened. This can cause headgasket problems. I took the old one out and fixed my mistake:

I also swapped in the new engine today with a bit of help from my brother (no engine crane). When I went to drain the oil out the old one not much oil came out, just a trickle... I poked up the sump plug hole and it was blocked with debris, big chunky metallic bits of debris and the oil is a lovely mess. Can't wait to see what's sat down there when I strip it

Grandad · 22-09-2008, 15:35

I'd send it back, the valves are in the wrong place

oh and there appear to be some missing too

Jonny69 · 22-09-2008, 15:37

There's no water pump or oil filter either. Hey, I've been had

Grandad · 22-09-2008, 15:49

as long as you got the ECU the rest can be sorted

Flibster · 22-09-2008, 15:57

There also appears to be 4 cylinders missing....

Jonny69 · 22-09-2008, 15:58

It makes the non-adjustable tappets easier to get to though

bam · 24-09-2008, 12:34

As you said this is the 4th of these old, old, engines you've had in this car, why is it you don't want to go for something more modern and reliable, or even modernise the whole car?

22-09-2008, 15:30	#1
Jonny69 Noob Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Socialist Republik of Kent Posts: 5,032	ANOTHER new engine for the Pop That's right folks we're up to engine number 4 in the Pop! Unfortunately the old one expired at Retro Rides Gathering '08 due to a bit of punishment that month. It was a combination of things, firstly it was the motorway miles that month (which killed the engine last time), some extra go faster goodies I'd put on that let the car do 80mph instead of 60mph (and I kept pushing it), a trip round the track at the Hotrod Hayride and finally some immature behaviour in the carpark at RRG08. It developed a bit of a knock which turned into a nasty knock and I decided to call the tow truck... Karma huh? A chappie on Retro Rides is local to me and just bought a secret new project and it happened to be powered by an E93A sidevalve of some sort. It had an Aquaplane inlet and exhaust but a 'Y' stamped on the head, that meant it could be the smaller 900cc engine or the 1172cc with a Y head, basically unknown because I don't know how to read the block numbers. It turned over and had compression which meant the valves weren't stuck, but we didn't get it to start. I decided to take a risk with it because I need an engine to get me back on the road, so recommended Mart put the Aquaplane kit on eBay and I made an offer on the block. I won't be building this one up like I have done in the past and I don't intend to strip it completely so I'm going to risk the bottom end, but I did want to take a look at the top end because it's a visual indicator of the general condition, and in case it was going to burn any oil. With the head off I can see it's dry in the bores with a little soot as expected. Exhaust ports are the same, no oily deposits and the valve stems feel reasonable clean. There's no rust around the valves which means the engine has been in the dry. Bores are shiny but no step at the top: Unfortunately I sheared one stud so the easy outs will have to come out again: It also looks like it was full of coolant when it was left and it's evaporated away over the years because the engine is full of crust which will need to be flushed out. It's a bit thin in places and I'm hoping it isn't going to leak or hasn't gone porous. This is what I scraped out the pipe alone: Back up to the top a quick eyeball tells me that it's the 1172cc engine (which I wanted) and I think it's been rebored +30thou. I'll have to measure up to double check but it will be handy if it is because one problem I have with my other engine is it's not on the standard bore so I can't just steal the pistons out another engine when I break it. The 030 here should tell me it's +30thou or +0.75mm in new money: So basically it looks like this block is useable. Without knowing the condition of the bottom end it could last 2000 miles or 20,000 miles, but this is just to get me out of trouble and I'm going to be a bit more sympathetic with this one on the motorway... One thing I will have to do is block this hole up. The previous owner ran a heater off a tapping in the block waterway. This was not original and my heater runs off the top hose so I'll be plugging it with a plate, weld or I'll tap a bolt into it: Next job is a quick measure up to double check everything and have a quick look at the valve train. Turning it over by hand it looks like it's got a standard cam which I'll leave in there because it's a lot of work to swap it over and it will help prolong the life of this engine. __________________

22-09-2008, 15:31	#2
Jonny69 Noob Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Socialist Republik of Kent Posts: 5,032	I had a measure up and it's definitely an 1172cc engine and the cam is stock. It's got its stock solid lifters, didn't check the clearances but I can't adjust them anyway, and all the valves close satisfactorily. Since I'm not putting the high lift cam in I am going to put on my mega compression head. It was well snotted up with oil and carbon from the old dead engine but a quick cleanup and it's come up nicely: I had to get some new easy outs for the snapped stud, typical, can never find the tools you need, but the new ones were much better quality than the old ones. As it happens I couldn't get it out anyway so I've drilled it and I'll run a tap down it to chase the thread through. I can see where the thread starts so I should be able to pick up the old thread quite easily: The distributor rotor arm had about 10 degrees of play in it, no good for smooth running, so I checked where the play might be. The rotor arm itself had a little play in it but not much, most of the play was in this slotted shaft that drives the distributor: An old trick is to pinch the ends so they are tight on the two drive dogs, which I did with a quick crank in the vice: I don't want ANY play at all so I squeeze them tight enough that they need a little tap to get them on the drive dogs. The distributor will need the same when I put it back in this hole: I drove the engine over to a new best friend who has all the imperial taps and I tried to get that stud hole ready to re-use. __________________

22-09-2008, 15:34	#3
Jonny69 Noob Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Socialist Republik of Kent Posts: 5,032	Failed hard trying to get the stud out, where it wasn't drilled very straight the tap was struggling to pick up a thread and was going in at a nasty angle, so... Got me one of these helicoil kits from Cromwell Tools: Basically everything there in one box I needed and with the tap wrench it came to about £35 delivered. Drilled it out using the head as a guide, retapped it with my slightly larger than expected tap wrench and I now have this lovely helicoil insert instead of a mashed up hole: I'll post a full how-to article because it was really easy to do if you take a few precautionary steps and I can guarantee we'll all break a stud or bolt at some point and not be able to get it out __________________

22-09-2008, 15:34	#4
Jonny69 Noob Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Socialist Republik of Kent Posts: 5,032	I took some advice off some guys on the HAMB and re-did the helicoil. It should be in further than I did it (about one whole thread) and as a precaution you should slightly countersink the top thread to stop it lifting when the stud/bolt is tightened. This can cause headgasket problems. I took the old one out and fixed my mistake: I also swapped in the new engine today with a bit of help from my brother (no engine crane). When I went to drain the oil out the old one not much oil came out, just a trickle... I poked up the sump plug hole and it was blocked with debris, big chunky metallic bits of debris and the oil is a lovely mess. Can't wait to see what's sat down there when I strip it __________________

22-09-2008, 15:37	#6
Jonny69 Noob Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Socialist Republik of Kent Posts: 5,032	There's no water pump or oil filter either. Hey, I've been had __________________

22-09-2008, 15:35	#5
Grandad Old Git Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,016	I'd send it back, the valves are in the wrong place oh and there appear to be some missing too

22-09-2008, 15:49	#7
Grandad Old Git Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,016	as long as you got the ECU the rest can be sorted

22-09-2008, 15:57	#8
Flibster Moonshine Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,388	There also appears to be 4 cylinders missing.... __________________

22-09-2008, 15:58	#9
Jonny69 Noob Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Socialist Republik of Kent Posts: 5,032	It makes the non-adjustable tappets easier to get to though __________________

24-09-2008, 12:34	#10
bam Long Island Iced Tea Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 106	As you said this is the 4th of these old, old, engines you've had in this car, why is it you don't want to go for something more modern and reliable, or even modernise the whole car? __________________ Oderint Dum Metuant