Your faith...

Pheebs · 10-03-2009, 15:33

When asked, I've always said I'm a Christian. I was brought up from a very young age to attend mass weekly and say my bed time prayers and so on. It was when I hit mid teens (oooh the rebellious age!) I started to question what it was I was doing every Sunday and why I was doing it.

For me... in short... I was going each week to a church where I "chanted" the same words over again. 90% of the readings I had already heard and most of the preaching between was about how *I* reject God and was a sinner, so I should ask for his forgiveness. He will then forgive me and does love me so I should be joyous.

This... began to grate on me. Eventually I spoke to my Ma (who worked at the presbytery) and said that although I believe there's a higher power of sorts out there, I do not feel right to attend church weekly to participate in what I felt was almost a cult like ceremony.

I then became an infrequent church visitor. I would pop in when I felt the need but was not keen about it.

It was about 4... possibly 5 years ago now that my feelings for the church and Christianity was really pushed for me. My Nanny had passed away and I was stood at the front of this beautiful church mourning the coffin next to me... when I suddenly became aware that the priest in front of me was telling me I was a sinner and I didn't deserve the life I was given. This... riled me. Beyond belief. Obviously it was an emotional time as it was but to tell me... after I had worked my bum off to do all I could to support my Nan and my family as she slowly died a horrible death that I was a sinner and need to ask for forgiveness... well screw that for a laugh.

I then resented going to Church. I didn't even feel the need/want to go at Christmas and Easter. I just... didn't want to do it.

On top of that, I had been giving it all a lot of thought. God. Supposedly this chap in the human form... created everything. I'd like to consider myself as quite an open minded person but how could this one chap create all of this around me? And not being funny, where did he come from then?! What about evolution, which I believe in? I've always felt the Bible was a glamorous book of morals with some flicker of true stories in it but no more.

What baffles me is that all of this seems so obvious to me... it just seems so unrealistic to believe in some of the Christian beliefs. But what baffles me even more than this... is there are SO many highly intellectual people who do believe in it. Believe the bible, believe in God and Jesus and so on. They're more intelligent than I these people... what am I not seeing?

Now... I'm just confused

I think there could very well be some form of super power above us that started everything... but not in human form!! Soooo. Tonight. I am going to a Christianity Explored church course. I'm intrigued now by what they have to say. I don't think I will be contributing a lot to the evening but I'm certainly going to listen and try and absorb the logic in the Christian belief.

I think it will be interesting. I'm always up for learning more about different beliefs and so on... but hopefully this will help figure out what I feel in my head. This post doesn't really put across my full arguments particularly well (excuse me for that - I'm just whacking this down whilst I finish my afternoon cuppa tea break) but you get an idea of what I think

How do you guys and girls feel?

Belmit · 10-03-2009, 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pheebs

What baffles me is that all of this seems so obvious to me... it just seems so unrealistic to believe in some of the Christian beliefs. But what baffles me even more than this... is there are SO many highly intellectual people who do believe in it. Believe the bible, believe in God and Jesus and so on. They're more intelligent than I these people... what am I not seeing?

Even the most intelligent people can be afraid of death.

I didn't use to like being labelled, but now I can pretty much say I'm an atheist. It's weird that a part of me is almost afraid to admit this, like it's some sort of taboo. It definitely feels like in the last year there's been a sudden outpouring of atheism in the media, like it's the new 'coming out'. Maybe it's this that has given me more confidence in my beliefs.

iCraig · 10-03-2009, 15:54

Agnostic.

Why? Quite simple really, I don't think that we as a species have the ability yet, or perhaps ever, to fully understand the universe and how/why it was made. Any God we believe in seems "man made" to me and I doubt that if there is a God, he's one of the specific variants we worship.

However I don't think have the capacity in the opposite direct either, to say "There is no God" when we're still trying to find out how the universe works (CERN experiments) and we're still a total loss of why the big bang happened.

Basically, I'm open to the idea that there's a God, because let's face it, when it comes to the universe and its creation, I think it's wise to keep and open mind and say anything's possible.

Haly · 10-03-2009, 15:58

Much the same as iCraig. I keep an open mind as I don't really know either way basically.

I probably come across more as an atheist though as I always question everything.

However I hate it when any belief is forced upon me by someone, or forced upon children. Doesn't seem right to me but I know that like everything else, there are people who wouldn't do that and people who would.

Matblack · 10-03-2009, 16:01

My feelings on this matter are complicated, but I don't believe if there is a a 'god' anywhere that it cares about/ comprehends/ even realises the human race exists.

This sums it up pretty nicely for me

MB

Stan_Lite · 10-03-2009, 16:11

I always used to state that I was an atheist but tedious, argumentative types always claim that atheism is a form of religion and therefore contradicts itself. I can't be bothered to argue with them so I changed my status to non-believer. I think I'm going to change it again to apathetic - I really don't care whether there is a God or not. If there is, I'm going to burn in hell because I'm damn sure I won't worship Him/Her/It. If there isn't one, I'm no worse off and at least I've lived my life predominantly according to my own values rather than those imposed upon me by some self righteous religious group.

I am perfectly comfortable with people who are religious - as long as they don't bother me about it, we get on fine.

Jhadur · 10-03-2009, 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigstan

I always used to state that I was an atheist but tedious, argumentative types always claim that atheism is a form of religion and therefore contradicts itself. I can't be bothered to argue with them so I changed my status to non-believer. I think I'm going to change it again to apathetic - I really don't care whether there is a God or not. If there is, I'm going to burn in hell because I'm damn sure I won't worship Him/Her/It. If there isn't one, I'm no worse off and at least I've lived my life predominantly according to my own values rather than those imposed upon me by some self righteous religious group.

I am perfectly comfortable with people who are religious - as long as they don't bother me about it, we get on fine.

I'll go with Stan on this as regards to my faith/lack there of and my attitude towards people that are religious.

Even though I went to church as a kid (not too often with family but then every Sunday as a choir boy) I can't remember actually thinking that there is a God and that I should worship him.

Briggykins · 10-03-2009, 16:31

I'm in exactly the same boat as Bigstan. Semantics mean I'm technically an agnostic, because I believe in God as much as I believe in the Celestial Teapot, but I'd believe in either if they were proved to me. Personally I see that as atheism, but what the hey.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigstan

I'm going to burn in hell because I'm damn sure I won't worship Him/Her/It.

Yeah, and this is the bit that riles me about Christian teachings. I (try to) live my life causing as little hurt or harm as possible, basically in the same way as Christians try to. I think any God worth His salt would consider that enough. I don't believe God, if one exists, has an ego that needs fulfilling by my worshipping Him.

Pheebs · 10-03-2009, 16:51

Will you all come with me to this meeting this evening

I'm glad there's other people out there who think similar to me. I consider myself to be quite a strong willed person but if I come back this evening brain washed, please could someone do the honours and slap me silly until I snap out of it?

Glaucus · 10-03-2009, 16:54

Agnostic.

My mum made me go to church (seventh day adventists) but always said she just wanted to know what she belived and when we were old enough make are own minds up.

For me the bible has far to many inconsistency where it contradicts each other.

It also annoys me that many people do not question their faith, even if they choose it when an adult.

I mean churches like CoE we know why they where set up and not from the bible.
That you have a leader of Catholics who can change gods rules, decides who goes to heaven and is worshipped like an idol. Yet all those things are strictly forbidden in the bible.

Also most places in the bible refer to the punishment of sin to be death and no hell. Only a few passages relate to a lake of fire but even then hardly with the words eternal and how can a loving God create an eternal hell. Not very loving is it.
The bible says that the earth with the sinned will be burnt with fire and the righteous will walk on the ashes of the sinners. And that the dead will raise first and go to heaven. Not that as soon as you die you go to heaven.

Basically what I'm saying is personal faith is great. Mindless large churches are rubbish. they do not like you questioning their silly believes. People should go to an independent church where everyone has different takes and actually sit down and study the bible and question each other. Or do it at home.

10-03-2009, 15:33	#1
Pheebs Deep Throat Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 6,512	Your faith... When asked, I've always said I'm a Christian. I was brought up from a very young age to attend mass weekly and say my bed time prayers and so on. It was when I hit mid teens (oooh the rebellious age!) I started to question what it was I was doing every Sunday and why I was doing it. For me... in short... I was going each week to a church where I "chanted" the same words over again. 90% of the readings I had already heard and most of the preaching between was about how I reject God and was a sinner, so I should ask for his forgiveness. He will then forgive me and does love me so I should be joyous. This... began to grate on me. Eventually I spoke to my Ma (who worked at the presbytery) and said that although I believe there's a higher power of sorts out there, I do not feel right to attend church weekly to participate in what I felt was almost a cult like ceremony. I then became an infrequent church visitor. I would pop in when I felt the need but was not keen about it. It was about 4... possibly 5 years ago now that my feelings for the church and Christianity was really pushed for me. My Nanny had passed away and I was stood at the front of this beautiful church mourning the coffin next to me... when I suddenly became aware that the priest in front of me was telling me I was a sinner and I didn't deserve the life I was given. This... riled me. Beyond belief. Obviously it was an emotional time as it was but to tell me... after I had worked my bum off to do all I could to support my Nan and my family as she slowly died a horrible death that I was a sinner and need to ask for forgiveness... well screw that for a laugh. I then resented going to Church. I didn't even feel the need/want to go at Christmas and Easter. I just... didn't want to do it. On top of that, I had been giving it all a lot of thought. God. Supposedly this chap in the human form... created everything. I'd like to consider myself as quite an open minded person but how could this one chap create all of this around me? And not being funny, where did he come from then?! What about evolution, which I believe in? I've always felt the Bible was a glamorous book of morals with some flicker of true stories in it but no more. What baffles me is that all of this seems so obvious to me... it just seems so unrealistic to believe in some of the Christian beliefs. But what baffles me even more than this... is there are SO many highly intellectual people who do believe in it. Believe the bible, believe in God and Jesus and so on. They're more intelligent than I these people... what am I not seeing? Now... I'm just confused I think there could very well be some form of super power above us that started everything... but not in human form!! Soooo. Tonight. I am going to a Christianity Explored church course. I'm intrigued now by what they have to say. I don't think I will be contributing a lot to the evening but I'm certainly going to listen and try and absorb the logic in the Christian belief. I think it will be interesting. I'm always up for learning more about different beliefs and so on... but hopefully this will help figure out what I feel in my head. This post doesn't really put across my full arguments particularly well (excuse me for that - I'm just whacking this down whilst I finish my afternoon cuppa tea break) but you get an idea of what I think How do you guys and girls feel? __________________ http://www.spiffingdesigns.co.uk

10-03-2009, 15:54	#3
iCraig iCustom User Title Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 2,250	Agnostic. Why? Quite simple really, I don't think that we as a species have the ability yet, or perhaps ever, to fully understand the universe and how/why it was made. Any God we believe in seems "man made" to me and I doubt that if there is a God, he's one of the specific variants we worship. However I don't think have the capacity in the opposite direct either, to say "There is no God" when we're still trying to find out how the universe works (CERN experiments) and we're still a total loss of why the big bang happened. Basically, I'm open to the idea that there's a God, because let's face it, when it comes to the universe and its creation, I think it's wise to keep and open mind and say anything's possible. __________________

10-03-2009, 15:58	#4
Haly Do you want to hide in my box? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 14,941	Much the same as iCraig. I keep an open mind as I don't really know either way basically. I probably come across more as an atheist though as I always question everything. However I hate it when any belief is forced upon me by someone, or forced upon children. Doesn't seem right to me but I know that like everything else, there are people who wouldn't do that and people who would. __________________ Halycopter

10-03-2009, 16:01	#5
Matblack Baby Bore Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Svalbard Posts: 9,770	My feelings on this matter are complicated, but I don't believe if there is a a 'god' anywhere that it cares about/ comprehends/ even realises the human race exists. This sums it up pretty nicely for me MB __________________ "we had roots that grew towards each other underground, and when all the pretty blossom had fallen from our branches we found that we were one tree and not two"

10-03-2009, 16:11	#6
Stan_Lite Stan, Stan the FLASHER MAN! Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: In bed with your sister Posts: 5,483	I always used to state that I was an atheist but tedious, argumentative types always claim that atheism is a form of religion and therefore contradicts itself. I can't be bothered to argue with them so I changed my status to non-believer. I think I'm going to change it again to apathetic - I really don't care whether there is a God or not. If there is, I'm going to burn in hell because I'm damn sure I won't worship Him/Her/It. If there isn't one, I'm no worse off and at least I've lived my life predominantly according to my own values rather than those imposed upon me by some self righteous religious group. I am perfectly comfortable with people who are religious - as long as they don't bother me about it, we get on fine. __________________ Just because I have a short attention span doesn't mean I...

10-03-2009, 16:51	#9
Pheebs Deep Throat Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 6,512	Will you all come with me to this meeting this evening I'm glad there's other people out there who think similar to me. I consider myself to be quite a strong willed person but if I come back this evening brain washed, please could someone do the honours and slap me silly until I snap out of it? __________________ http://www.spiffingdesigns.co.uk

10-03-2009, 16:54	#10
Glaucus Absinthe Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,855	Agnostic. My mum made me go to church (seventh day adventists) but always said she just wanted to know what she belived and when we were old enough make are own minds up. For me the bible has far to many inconsistency where it contradicts each other. It also annoys me that many people do not question their faith, even if they choose it when an adult. I mean churches like CoE we know why they where set up and not from the bible. That you have a leader of Catholics who can change gods rules, decides who goes to heaven and is worshipped like an idol. Yet all those things are strictly forbidden in the bible. Also most places in the bible refer to the punishment of sin to be death and no hell. Only a few passages relate to a lake of fire but even then hardly with the words eternal and how can a loving God create an eternal hell. Not very loving is it. The bible says that the earth with the sinned will be burnt with fire and the righteous will walk on the ashes of the sinners. And that the dead will raise first and go to heaven. Not that as soon as you die you go to heaven. Basically what I'm saying is personal faith is great. Mindless large churches are rubbish. they do not like you questioning their silly believes. People should go to an independent church where everyone has different takes and actually sit down and study the bible and question each other. Or do it at home. __________________