So..... running - Page 106

petemc · 13-07-2011, 11:58

After discussing the issue with Runners World folk they say I should stick with RunKeeper.

jmc41 · 13-07-2011, 13:48

I agree with what they're saying, everything I've read is about gradually building to slow long runs of 18-22 or 23 miles max. Normaly no more than 10% or a mile extra a week.

Personally my runnering improved a lot more adding in a longer run Friday even when only doing two in a week. If I never ran more than 8 I'd fear a HM let alone a full one.

Of course, I've not run a marathon so this is all purely imho

[Edit] The plan he suggested, with 7 items, is that meant to be per week? The other thing I've read everywhere is to take at least one day a week off! Although that's normally meant to be after a hard run, and even the fartlek doesn't look like it's extremely hard. Normally hard runs are 80-85% I thought?
Stick with the runkeeper plan!

petemc · 13-07-2011, 14:15

He wasn't clear. It was just a suggestion of the sort of thing I should probably be doing. I think the one day off would be the stretching day.

Like I said over there, it was more of a chat than a comprehensive programme

lostkat · 13-07-2011, 18:21

This is your first marathon. From what I remember, you're not trying to do any kind of aspirational time. The main objective is getting round... preferably alive!

You don't NEED to do hill springs, fartleks or anything like that, but they will help your endurance as well as speed etc. Personally, unless it's a particularly hilly marathon, I would forget hill sprints at this early stage in your marathon running career. I only did them for my 4th marathon, which is one of the hilliest road marathon in the UK! However, some fartlek training might be beneficial... it really does work, trust me!

It doesn't have to be out and out sprinting, just an increased effort for a set length of time or distance. Many folks do alternate lamp posts. Pick up your speed from one post to the next, then have one lamp post recovery... something like that. It might help you anyway and add some variation to your plan. Plodding at one speed all the time isn't the way to train. Shorter runs should always be quicker than your long slow run, where the aim is getting the distance done.

The main thing is to get the miles in. Your long run is absolutely crucial. Please don't miss it under any circumstances, or you'll find yourself falling behind. If you're planning to be out that day, rejig your plan and do the long run another day. I really cannot stress how important it is to get the distance under your belt. Without that, you have a VERY long and painful marathon to look forward to. 26 miles is a bloody long way!

I've said this before and I'll say it again, a marathon is not just 2 half marathons stuck together. Halfway in a marathon is about 20-22 miles. After that, the wheels start coming off and you fall apart. I cannot describe to you exactly how hitting 'the wall' feels, but you just want to curl into a ball and cry. Your feet feel like someone has sanded them down and made you walk in vinegar, your legs are made of lead, you can't get any air into your body and your mind is utterly fizzled. The only way through is sheer grit, determination and the fitness you've picked up during training.

What date is your marathon Pete? How far are you up to now?

P.S. I trained for London 3-4 runs per week. You don't need to do 6 days of training. You'll lose motivation, or even worse, injure yourself! "It's better to be 10% undertrained than 2% overtrained"

petemc · 13-07-2011, 18:29

Cheers Lostkat

My marathon date is 9/10/11

Lennon's birthday. I'm a month into the training program. Last week I did an 11 mile run, this Saturday its a 12 mile run.

There is an element of fartlek training (*hears Kitten giggling*). There's a run I do like 4 miles then 20 second bursts, 2 min slow, etc.

I'm going to be running for the RNLI which was my mum's favourite charity. I often run past the local station and see them training, so I hope to do a photo essay on them.

lostkat · 13-07-2011, 18:34

OK, so you have plenty of time and it sounds like you're on track. That's good!!

When is your first 20 miler planned? Are you doing more than one 20 miler? Are you planning on doing a run over 20 miles?

The fartlek training you have in your plan sounds absolutely fine to me. Just make sure that shorter runs are ran faster and longer runs slower. The interval training is horrible because it takes you out of your comfort zone, but it will help

What a great choice of charity to run for

petemc · 13-07-2011, 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostkat

When is your first 20 miler planned? Are you doing more than one 20 miler? Are you planning on doing a run over 20 miles?

Huh. There isn't one. The longest in training is 16 miles. http://runkeeper.com/user/petemc/fit...uled-class/328

It says...

Quote:

Long and slow 22 milers provide a deceptive sense of confidence about completing the full 26 because they don't address the fueling issue. Furthermore, runs over the 3:30 - 4 hour mark breakdown the muscles and will completely exhaust you, which leads to a significant delay in recovery. In addition, running for longer than 3 hours and 30 minutes can significantly increase the chance of injury and doesn't provide significant benefits for the increased risk. Instead, this schedule places runs on both weekend days, which will allow you to carry the fatigue of Saturday's run into Sunday, which will simulate the latter stages of the marathon without having to run 20 miles first.

lostkat · 15-07-2011, 05:27

I would strongly disagree with that statement, but as MB says, everyone has their own view. I've done 4 marathons now and I ALWAYS do at least 1 20 miler first, even if my training is horrendous (as it was for Winderere). If you're building up 1 mile a week, your body gets used to the longer runs so you're not, in my opinion, at much risk of injuring yourself unless you're going too quick etc. You also "taper", which means your last 20 miler is about 3 weeks before your marathon, then you crank the distance back down so that you're recovered in time for the big day. 16 miles is a whole 10 miles short of a marathon Pete. Now given that in my previous post, I said that the halfway point is 20-22 miles, that's a bloody long way!

I'm not sure what it's talking about with the "fuelling issue" either. Are you taking gels/water with you on your runs? You should be practicing your fuelling strategy as you train, so you can get used to what works for you. The "deceptive sense of confidence" is all well and good, but I would get the opposite if I'd only done 16 and to me, lack of confidence is much more dangerous in a marathon than too much.... because you'll get to 16, run out of beans, give up and have 10 awful miles to walk.

Anyway, as I've said, people all have their own views on marathon training, but I've never read anything that's suggested a longest run of 16 miles. All the marathoners at my running club will do at least 1 before they run a marathon too. Worth considering anyway... I wouldn't take any single plan as gospel.

petemc · 15-07-2011, 20:18

I never even thought to check but when you mentioned it I was quite shocked that the longest run was only 16 miles. I'm no expert but I would have thought it was good to run at least 20 miles just to get your head around the crazy distance. From doing the half marathon I learnt that its good to run a very long run so you can test your shoes, legs, etc.

I got a book by Graeme Hilditch which has good reviews on Amazon. He has a beginners training program that looks good. Fartleks, hills and steadily adding on the miles with a 20 mile run 3 weeks before the marathon.

If you've got a minute I'd appreciate it if you could glance over it and see if it looks any better. I'm meant to be doing 12 miles tomorrow on RunKeeper but Hilditch's plan says 6 miles. I'd prefer to go with his plan now

http://www.fitfaqs.co.uk/_media/begi...ng%20guide.pdf

Mondo · 15-07-2011, 21:50

5km in 36min. I think I can officially run a 10min mile!

13-07-2011, 11:58	#1051
petemc Moonshine Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Nr Liverpewl Posts: 4,371	After discussing the issue with Runners World folk they say I should stick with RunKeeper. __________________ Thats no hamster, its a space station!

13-07-2011, 13:48	#1052
jmc41 Absinthe Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,070	I agree with what they're saying, everything I've read is about gradually building to slow long runs of 18-22 or 23 miles max. Normaly no more than 10% or a mile extra a week. Personally my runnering improved a lot more adding in a longer run Friday even when only doing two in a week. If I never ran more than 8 I'd fear a HM let alone a full one. Of course, I've not run a marathon so this is all purely imho [Edit] The plan he suggested, with 7 items, is that meant to be per week? The other thing I've read everywhere is to take at least one day a week off! Although that's normally meant to be after a hard run, and even the fartlek doesn't look like it's extremely hard. Normally hard runs are 80-85% I thought? Stick with the runkeeper plan! Last edited by jmc41; 13-07-2011 at 13:58.

13-07-2011, 14:15	#1053
petemc Moonshine Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Nr Liverpewl Posts: 4,371	He wasn't clear. It was just a suggestion of the sort of thing I should probably be doing. I think the one day off would be the stretching day. Like I said over there, it was more of a chat than a comprehensive programme __________________ Thats no hamster, its a space station!

13-07-2011, 18:21	#1054
lostkat Good Cat Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,550	This is your first marathon. From what I remember, you're not trying to do any kind of aspirational time. The main objective is getting round... preferably alive! You don't NEED to do hill springs, fartleks or anything like that, but they will help your endurance as well as speed etc. Personally, unless it's a particularly hilly marathon, I would forget hill sprints at this early stage in your marathon running career. I only did them for my 4th marathon, which is one of the hilliest road marathon in the UK! However, some fartlek training might be beneficial... it really does work, trust me! It doesn't have to be out and out sprinting, just an increased effort for a set length of time or distance. Many folks do alternate lamp posts. Pick up your speed from one post to the next, then have one lamp post recovery... something like that. It might help you anyway and add some variation to your plan. Plodding at one speed all the time isn't the way to train. Shorter runs should always be quicker than your long slow run, where the aim is getting the distance done. The main thing is to get the miles in. Your long run is absolutely crucial. Please don't miss it under any circumstances, or you'll find yourself falling behind. If you're planning to be out that day, rejig your plan and do the long run another day. I really cannot stress how important it is to get the distance under your belt. Without that, you have a VERY long and painful marathon to look forward to. 26 miles is a bloody long way! I've said this before and I'll say it again, a marathon is not just 2 half marathons stuck together. Halfway in a marathon is about 20-22 miles. After that, the wheels start coming off and you fall apart. I cannot describe to you exactly how hitting 'the wall' feels, but you just want to curl into a ball and cry. Your feet feel like someone has sanded them down and made you walk in vinegar, your legs are made of lead, you can't get any air into your body and your mind is utterly fizzled. The only way through is sheer grit, determination and the fitness you've picked up during training. What date is your marathon Pete? How far are you up to now? P.S. I trained for London 3-4 runs per week. You don't need to do 6 days of training. You'll lose motivation, or even worse, injure yourself! "It's better to be 10% undertrained than 2% overtrained" __________________ Oooooh Cecil, what have you done?

13-07-2011, 18:29	#1055
petemc Moonshine Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Nr Liverpewl Posts: 4,371	Cheers Lostkat My marathon date is 9/10/11 Lennon's birthday. I'm a month into the training program. Last week I did an 11 mile run, this Saturday its a 12 mile run. There is an element of fartlek training (hears Kitten giggling). There's a run I do like 4 miles then 20 second bursts, 2 min slow, etc. I'm going to be running for the RNLI which was my mum's favourite charity. I often run past the local station and see them training, so I hope to do a photo essay on them. __________________ Thats no hamster, its a space station!

13-07-2011, 18:34	#1056
lostkat Good Cat Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,550	OK, so you have plenty of time and it sounds like you're on track. That's good!! When is your first 20 miler planned? Are you doing more than one 20 miler? Are you planning on doing a run over 20 miles? The fartlek training you have in your plan sounds absolutely fine to me. Just make sure that shorter runs are ran faster and longer runs slower. The interval training is horrible because it takes you out of your comfort zone, but it will help What a great choice of charity to run for __________________ Oooooh Cecil, what have you done?

15-07-2011, 05:27	#1058
lostkat Good Cat Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,550	I would strongly disagree with that statement, but as MB says, everyone has their own view. I've done 4 marathons now and I ALWAYS do at least 1 20 miler first, even if my training is horrendous (as it was for Winderere). If you're building up 1 mile a week, your body gets used to the longer runs so you're not, in my opinion, at much risk of injuring yourself unless you're going too quick etc. You also "taper", which means your last 20 miler is about 3 weeks before your marathon, then you crank the distance back down so that you're recovered in time for the big day. 16 miles is a whole 10 miles short of a marathon Pete. Now given that in my previous post, I said that the halfway point is 20-22 miles, that's a bloody long way! I'm not sure what it's talking about with the "fuelling issue" either. Are you taking gels/water with you on your runs? You should be practicing your fuelling strategy as you train, so you can get used to what works for you. The "deceptive sense of confidence" is all well and good, but I would get the opposite if I'd only done 16 and to me, lack of confidence is much more dangerous in a marathon than too much.... because you'll get to 16, run out of beans, give up and have 10 awful miles to walk. Anyway, as I've said, people all have their own views on marathon training, but I've never read anything that's suggested a longest run of 16 miles. All the marathoners at my running club will do at least 1 before they run a marathon too. Worth considering anyway... I wouldn't take any single plan as gospel. __________________ Oooooh Cecil, what have you done?

15-07-2011, 20:18	#1059
petemc Moonshine Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Nr Liverpewl Posts: 4,371	I never even thought to check but when you mentioned it I was quite shocked that the longest run was only 16 miles. I'm no expert but I would have thought it was good to run at least 20 miles just to get your head around the crazy distance. From doing the half marathon I learnt that its good to run a very long run so you can test your shoes, legs, etc. I got a book by Graeme Hilditch which has good reviews on Amazon. He has a beginners training program that looks good. Fartleks, hills and steadily adding on the miles with a 20 mile run 3 weeks before the marathon. If you've got a minute I'd appreciate it if you could glance over it and see if it looks any better. I'm meant to be doing 12 miles tomorrow on RunKeeper but Hilditch's plan says 6 miles. I'd prefer to go with his plan now http://www.fitfaqs.co.uk/_media/begi...ng%20guide.pdf __________________ Thats no hamster, its a space station!

15-07-2011, 21:50	#1060
Mondo Absinthe Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 2,174	5km in 36min. I think I can officially run a 10min mile! __________________ My Website / MSN / Email / Flickr / Blog