I need a big drive with backup features - Page 2

petemc · 03-08-2008, 15:25

You know that never occured to me, and it seems that I can set Time Machine to backup my external drive. I could buy that and a new usb hd for less than the drobo or nas. Interesting...

LeperousDust · 03-08-2008, 16:13

Pah, call yourself a macite

?

Davey_Pitch · 03-08-2008, 16:15

If you're worried about the speed across the network couldn't you simply script it to start the backup at night then shutdown when it's finished? It's doable on Doze but not sure whether it's possible on a Mac or not.

petemc · 03-08-2008, 16:18

The speed isn't to do with backup, its do with day to day working. I could work off a network drive but it would feel sluggish, and Lightroom isn't the quickest of applications.

LeperousDust · 03-08-2008, 17:24

You don't want to work off a network drive do you? I think I've read this wrong... Work off your computer and backup, meaning have two physical copies at least. Don't just rely on one network storage.

Use your computer as your digital dark room and once processing is finished move them away from the hard drive if they're taking up too much space to a network drive and then back that up, but always have at least two copies (or more) for safe keeping....

If you're business relies on your computer storage you need absolute certainty things will stick around after a major accident.

petemc · 03-08-2008, 17:31

The way I had it was to edit on laptop, move to usb drive when done and backup that to another drive and the exported JPGs to Amazon S3. Things have become a bit unmanagble. So ideally what I might do is get the Time Capsule 1tb and set that to backup anything I plug into the laptop. The beauty of it is that I can also get it to backup stuff on my other Mac. Then its just a case of backing up to S3 online for offsite.

Mark · 03-08-2008, 18:20

I don't know how smart the time machine/time combo solution is at backing up from multiple sources. Automated solutions tend not to do so well at keeping track of what you've backed up unless they're designed for it (network backup software, for example).

Ideally for a business solution (and let's face it, your photography is your livelihood, so it's as near as), you probably want at least two levels of backup solution.

As Daz correctly says, RAID is an availability solution, not a backup solution - it won't protect you if you delete files and then realise you deleted the wrong ones (of course, that's what Time Machine does), or in the worst case, you have a power surge and it kills both drives. As a result, it may be an expensive solution that doesn't solve your problem. I'm not knocking RAID as it does give you some protection against drive failure (and believe me, I'm grateful it does).

I understand that speed is important to you but I'd argue having a good backup is far more important, especially when your livelihood is at stake.

Also, don't put all your eggs in one basket. Should whatever backup solution you choose fail, what then? For example, if you have your laptop and a NAS box plugged in and there's a lightning strike, you will most likely lose both. This also includes software - Time Machine is a good thing for recovering from foul-ups but I'm not sure it is or is intended to be a proper backup solution. If Time Machine should fail, can you still get your data back?

I'd suggest using a USB drive to backup things you're working on now. You can use a NAS box as longer-term storage (but for things you still need to keep to hand). Finally, CD/DVD for archival storage. I realise that this is pretty close to what you're doing now but it's a tried and tested solution, and one that works if you do a little planning.

Getting a good solution may not be cheap, but investing now will save grief later.

You're making the right move getting data off that dodgy drive pronto.

leowyatt · 03-08-2008, 18:23

From what I've heard the Drobo is excellent for backup and storage.

petemc · 03-08-2008, 18:28

Speed is only important for working on files on a daily basis, not for backup. That can take all night as I'll be asleep. Again, I'm using Amazon S3 for off site backup which is my 2nd level. The problem with dvd's is that they're too small. I can shoot 10gb a day, yesterday it was closer to 20gb.

Mark · 03-08-2008, 18:33

BD-ROM then, if you really have to, though I'm not sure if longevity has been proven (to be fair, the longevity of DVDs is far shorter than predicted too - I've had them fail after a few years).

Of course, you can use redundancy in the same manner - for example, you could use three cheap hard drives in grandfather/father/son rotation (i.e. you backup to the drive that was least recently used). If one fails, the worst that will probably happen is you lose the most recent backup.

The important thing is that mechanical devices suffer wear and tear, and they will fail, so relying on one device as a backup is a bad move. Even now you're doing better than most with your offsite backup though.

03-08-2008, 15:25	#11
petemc Moonshine Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Nr Liverpewl Posts: 4,371	You know that never occured to me, and it seems that I can set Time Machine to backup my external drive. I could buy that and a new usb hd for less than the drobo or nas. Interesting... __________________ Thats no hamster, its a space station!

03-08-2008, 16:13	#12
LeperousDust Bananaman Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Liverpool/Edinburgh Posts: 4,817	Pah, call yourself a macite ? __________________

03-08-2008, 16:15	#13
Davey_Pitch I iz speshul Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Liverpool Posts: 6,296	If you're worried about the speed across the network couldn't you simply script it to start the backup at night then shutdown when it's finished? It's doable on Doze but not sure whether it's possible on a Mac or not. __________________ Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine as children do. It's not just in some of us; it is in everyone. And as we let our own lights shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.

03-08-2008, 16:18	#14
petemc Moonshine Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Nr Liverpewl Posts: 4,371	The speed isn't to do with backup, its do with day to day working. I could work off a network drive but it would feel sluggish, and Lightroom isn't the quickest of applications. __________________ Thats no hamster, its a space station!

03-08-2008, 17:24	#15
LeperousDust Bananaman Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Liverpool/Edinburgh Posts: 4,817	You don't want to work off a network drive do you? I think I've read this wrong... Work off your computer and backup, meaning have two physical copies at least. Don't just rely on one network storage. Use your computer as your digital dark room and once processing is finished move them away from the hard drive if they're taking up too much space to a network drive and then back that up, but always have at least two copies (or more) for safe keeping.... If you're business relies on your computer storage you need absolute certainty things will stick around after a major accident. __________________

03-08-2008, 17:31	#16
petemc Moonshine Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Nr Liverpewl Posts: 4,371	The way I had it was to edit on laptop, move to usb drive when done and backup that to another drive and the exported JPGs to Amazon S3. Things have become a bit unmanagble. So ideally what I might do is get the Time Capsule 1tb and set that to backup anything I plug into the laptop. The beauty of it is that I can also get it to backup stuff on my other Mac. Then its just a case of backing up to S3 online for offsite. __________________ Thats no hamster, its a space station!

03-08-2008, 18:20	#17
Mark Screaming Orgasm Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Newbury Posts: 15,194	I don't know how smart the time machine/time combo solution is at backing up from multiple sources. Automated solutions tend not to do so well at keeping track of what you've backed up unless they're designed for it (network backup software, for example). Ideally for a business solution (and let's face it, your photography is your livelihood, so it's as near as), you probably want at least two levels of backup solution. As Daz correctly says, RAID is an availability solution, not a backup solution - it won't protect you if you delete files and then realise you deleted the wrong ones (of course, that's what Time Machine does), or in the worst case, you have a power surge and it kills both drives. As a result, it may be an expensive solution that doesn't solve your problem. I'm not knocking RAID as it does give you some protection against drive failure (and believe me, I'm grateful it does). I understand that speed is important to you but I'd argue having a good backup is far more important, especially when your livelihood is at stake. Also, don't put all your eggs in one basket. Should whatever backup solution you choose fail, what then? For example, if you have your laptop and a NAS box plugged in and there's a lightning strike, you will most likely lose both. This also includes software - Time Machine is a good thing for recovering from foul-ups but I'm not sure it is or is intended to be a proper backup solution. If Time Machine should fail, can you still get your data back? I'd suggest using a USB drive to backup things you're working on now. You can use a NAS box as longer-term storage (but for things you still need to keep to hand). Finally, CD/DVD for archival storage. I realise that this is pretty close to what you're doing now but it's a tried and tested solution, and one that works if you do a little planning. Getting a good solution may not be cheap, but investing now will save grief later. You're making the right move getting data off that dodgy drive pronto. Last edited by Mark; 03-08-2008 at 18:27.

03-08-2008, 18:23	#18
leowyatt Chef extraordinaire Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Infinite Loop Posts: 11,143	From what I've heard the Drobo is excellent for backup and storage. __________________ "Dr Sheldon Cooper FTW!"

03-08-2008, 18:28	#19
petemc Moonshine Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Nr Liverpewl Posts: 4,371	Speed is only important for working on files on a daily basis, not for backup. That can take all night as I'll be asleep. Again, I'm using Amazon S3 for off site backup which is my 2nd level. The problem with dvd's is that they're too small. I can shoot 10gb a day, yesterday it was closer to 20gb. __________________ Thats no hamster, its a space station!

03-08-2008, 18:33	#20
Mark Screaming Orgasm Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Newbury Posts: 15,194	BD-ROM then, if you really have to, though I'm not sure if longevity has been proven (to be fair, the longevity of DVDs is far shorter than predicted too - I've had them fail after a few years). Of course, you can use redundancy in the same manner - for example, you could use three cheap hard drives in grandfather/father/son rotation (i.e. you backup to the drive that was least recently used). If one fails, the worst that will probably happen is you lose the most recent backup. The important thing is that mechanical devices suffer wear and tear, and they will fail, so relying on one device as a backup is a bad move. Even now you're doing better than most with your offsite backup though. Last edited by Mark; 03-08-2008 at 18:37.