Boat Drinks Virtual Election

[Garp]

Originally Posted by Matblack

Errrr

Because the party who just won, just won under the current system? What incentive do a ruling majority have to change a system which just got them elected?

Am I being thick here?

MB

I think you're missing that the ruling party does not have the majority. They're dependent on Lib Dems to get anything done. The Tories now have to go cap in hand to get all sorts of stuff done essential to the formation of the government. That gives the Lib Dems and other parties enough power to balk the Tories at any stage if they should choose. If Clegg doesn't insist on election reform as one of the requirements for a coalition he'd be an idiot.

[Del Lardo]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politi...10/8667938.stm

David Cameron has reached out to the Liberal Democrats in an effort to form a government - after the UK general election resulted in a hung parliament.
The Tory leader, whose party won most seats but was short of a majority, said he wanted to make a "big open and comprehensive offer" to the Lib Dems.
BBC political editor Nick Robinson said it could include Lib Dems in cabinet.

[Dymetrie]

Originally Posted by Garp

I think you're missing that the ruling party does not have the majority. They're dependent on Lib Dems to get anything done. The Tories now have to go cap in hand to get all sorts of stuff done essential to the formation of the government. That gives the Lib Dems and other parties enough power to balk the Tories at any stage if they should choose. If Clegg doesn't insist on election reform as one of the requirements for a coalition he'd be an idiot.

Pretty sure that was a general comment about elections from Matt, rather than the current election.

Rather than insist on electoral reform as part of a coalition deal, Clegg should instead oppose Cameron and appeal to the Queen and the rest of Government to reform the electoral system now and hold another General Election.

It's what I'd do anyway

[Mark]

Originally Posted by Matblack

Errrr

Because the party who just won, just won under the current system? What incentive do a ruling majority have to change a system which just got them elected?

Am I being thick here?

MB

My point is that the ruling party's resistance to change doesn't stop you, I, or anyone else (including the politicians) from discussing this. Yes, of course, the LD people discussed it in the run up to the election, as they were bound to do, but that still leaves a four-year gap.

In other words - beyond the natural "morning after" critique, if electoral reform is so important (and I have no problem believing that it is), then why don't we do something about it? How many people raised electoral reform with their MP? How many people started (or signed) a petition on the Number 10 web site? Deaf ears, maybe, but that is no excuse not to ask.

PS - those questions are directed at the masses, not anyone in particular.

[Grandad]

Originally Posted by Matblack

If a vote was actually worth a vote then the Lib Dems would be in the running, if the Lib Dems were in the running, all the people who want to vote Lib Dem but won't because they 'can't win' might vote Lib Dem in which case the country would be a very different place.

MB

They also gain votes though due to tactical voting, impossible to know the numbers of either scenario though

[Pickers]

The BNP got 1.9% of the vote, under proportional representation that equates to 12 MPs.
Apparently.

[Mark]

To be fair, I've seen that argument elsewhere, and as argued there, it's a non sequitur*. There are many proportional systems, and they could result in the BNP getting anything from no seats to, as you say, 12.

I'm not sure what the results under the single transferrable vote system (which seems to be the preference) would be, but it wouldn't be anywhere near 12. STV is a regional system, and the BNP is very much a regional party. In most areas they'd get nothing, though they might pick up a couple of seats in 'heartland' areas.

* Yes, I did learn that from Star Trek. Thank you Tuvok.

[Dymetrie]

STV is the preferred version of PR, but not the only one.

But whatever happens, there hasn't been a Government in this country with a true majority for as far back as most people can remember.

The public interest in this election, as displayed by the increased turnout, is exactly the catlyst which is needed for change. 38degrees has started a petition to support it (when I'm back at an actual computer then I'll find a link for those interested) and I just hope that the current heightened interest in politics carries on and something is finally done.

And the argument that PR would give the BNP a voice is an argument of intolerance. True democracy and Western values is about tolerance.

"I disagree with what you say, but I will fight to the death to defend your right to say it!"

[Mark]

Originally Posted by Dymetrie

STV is the preferred version of PR, but not the only one.

Which is what I said.

Originally Posted by Dymetrie

38degrees has started a petition to support it (when I'm back at an actual computer then I'll find a link for those interested) and I just hope that the current heightened interest in politics carries on and something is finally done.

And, lest I give the impression I'm anti-PR, I can help with that...

http://labs.38degrees.org.uk/all/media/103
http://labs.38degrees.org.uk/wall/reform

[Dymetrie]

Great minds and all that

Thanks for the link, Mark.

My computer is in the other room