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Old 09-11-2009, 09:33   #211
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I've seen the clip and I think the blame lies equally with Louis. He voted for them purely because he's their mentor and not because of any talent.

If these four people are indeed 'judges', then they should vote according to the performance, as judges do. The two girls did that, Louis didn't, he just voted for those pair of talentless twats because he's the one who looks after them.
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Old 09-11-2009, 09:35   #212
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I'm in the camp that thinks X Factor is a talent show and acts should be judged on the level of their talent and not how popular they are. I realise this is almost impossible since the public do the voting and it has been shown many times in the past that the British public have some strange ideas as to what constitutes talent.

I didn't see this weekends show since I'm on the rig but, from what I've read, I'm pretty sure Simon Cowell will have known which act had received the most public votes and put it to the public vote so he wouldn't have to look like a total hypocrite (only a bit of a hypocrite) by voting them to stay in. By that reasoning, he did save them and to say he didn't is semantics.

I can understand why he did it. These clowns generate a great deal of interest in the show and, since it's his show, it's in his own interests to propagate interest in it. It's disappointing for people like myself who watch the show to see talented artists perform and compete. I don't want to see people with genuine talent denied the chance to compete and to realise their dream because the British public and the money grubbing owner of the show prefer to keep people like these in the show for their own childish or selfish reasons.

My conscience would not allow me to deny talented people the chance of a career by voting for these two, simply to satisfy some perverse desire to continue the farce this has become or to scrape a few quid more from the pockets of the gullible public.

I refuse to not watch it because of this, I just watch the real talent and then go do something worthwhile while the comedy act is on. I will however, exercise my inalienable right to express my opinion and to have a whinge
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Old 09-11-2009, 09:46   #213
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Originally Posted by Bigstan View Post
I didn't see this weekends show since I'm on the rig but, from what I've read, I'm pretty sure Simon Cowell will have known which act had received the most public votes and put it to the public vote so he wouldn't have to look like a total hypocrite (only a bit of a hypocrite) by voting them to stay in. By that reasoning, he did save them and to say he didn't is semantics.
That's assuming that your assumption that he knows the vote numbers beforehand is correct. And seeing as we can't know that, by that reasoning, it's not semantics at all

He let it go to a 50/50 chance by way of public vote. Yes, he could have kicked them out but he chose not to. But I think it's a bit much to say that he saved them.

As for his decision, I think he got it wrong and it was clearly a money making and marketing decision. The show has turned in to a bit of a joke IMO now. Yes I'll still watch it as I never really take it seriously anyway but it's lost that little bit of shine it had when it puts the talentless in front of the talented.
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Old 09-11-2009, 09:51   #214
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What the chuff would we all debate if Jedward left? Part of me thinks we would all be bored without them.
Olly vs Jamie vs Danyl? I'm having a hard time working out which I prefer. 'Twould be nice to be discussing talent again

When I said 'semantics' btw, I just meant that 'saving' is another word for 'voting' in this case. I don't know whether Simon knew the likely result or not.
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Old 09-11-2009, 10:19   #215
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That's assuming that your assumption that he knows the vote numbers beforehand is correct. And seeing as we can't know that, by that reasoning, it's not semantics at all
I'd be very surprised if he didn't. Anyway, my main point wasn't about semantics and I'd rather not get drawn into that discussion

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As for his decision, I think he got it wrong and it was clearly a money making and marketing decision. The show has turned in to a bit of a joke IMO now. Yes I'll still watch it as I never really take it seriously anyway but it's lost that little bit of shine it had when it puts the talentless in front of the talented.
Pretty much sums up my thinking. If Simon Cowell truly wanted the show to be about talent, there was only one honest thing he could have done. His failure to do the honest thing has made a mockery of the whole thing - which is a shame as the show has the potential to be an excellent showcase for British talent, as long as it's done with integrity and fairness.

It's all Louis Walsh's fault anyway. If he hadn't put them in the final, they wouldn't have been there in the first place. Makes me wonder how much control he had over that decision. It was clear from the start that these two would cause controversy and debate - which begs the question of whether they were put there deliberately for that very reason
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Old 09-11-2009, 10:26   #216
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Guys, please tell me that we are all aware that this is NOT a talent show and never has been. To call it a bloody talent show is just semantics. () It's a money making machine for Mr Cowell et al, and that's it. Nothing more, nothing less. The 'talent' part is a means to an end and if you honestly think it's about the talent then I think you're deluded! (sorry)

J&E staying in is entertainment pure & simple. I've not watched this show for the last 2 years however I'm glued to see how far J&E can push it.
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Old 09-11-2009, 10:39   #217
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That's assuming that your assumption that he knows the vote numbers beforehand is correct. And seeing as we can't know that, by that reasoning, it's not semantics at all

He let it go to a 50/50 chance by way of public vote. Yes, he could have kicked them out but he chose not to. But I think it's a bit much to say that he saved them.
I think it's all a question of how you look at it. If this is meant to be a talent show, he should vote for the most talented act, which was clearly Lucie. The fact that he didn't means that he saved them in my eyes.

Either way, it's a cop out on Simon's part to let it go to the public vote. In all previous years (bar last season) it would have been impossible as there were only 3 judges. If the judges are going to send it into deadlock every week, then they should have no say at all. Let them give their comments on each performance, scrap the sing-off, and let whoever gets the least votes get sent straight home. If Lucie were knocked out in that situation I could at least accept that. The fact that Simon voted against her, for whatever reason, means he's a hypocrite for going against the idea X-Factor is meant to be a talent show.

I will admit my opinion will be a little skewed though simply as I absolutely detest the twins. I think they have no redeeming qualities whatsoever, and cannot see why people like them. I know people say they're so bad they're fun to watch, but I just don't get it.
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Old 09-11-2009, 10:41   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitten View Post
Guys, please tell me that we are all aware that this is NOT a talent show and never has been. To call it a bloody talent show is just semantics. () It's a money making machine for Mr Cowell et al, and that's it. Nothing more, nothing less. The 'talent' part is a means to an end and if you honestly think it's about the talent then I think you're deluded! (sorry)

J&E staying in is entertainment pure & simple. I've not watched this show for the last 2 years however I'm glued to see how far J&E can push it.
Of course it's a money making scheme, but as history has proven, the people with the most talent (Leona, Shane, Alexandra) will make him the most money in the long run, therefore it should be treated as a talent show.
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Old 09-11-2009, 12:20   #219
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Originally Posted by Kitten View Post
Guys, please tell me that we are all aware that this is NOT a talent show and never has been. To call it a bloody talent show is just semantics. () It's a money making machine for Mr Cowell et al, and that's it. Nothing more, nothing less. The 'talent' part is a means to an end and if you honestly think it's about the talent then I think you're deluded! (sorry)
Deluded? No. Disillusioned? Yes.

It might not be a talent show now but it's supposed to be. That was the principle on which the show was founded. Cowell himself said of the twins "The fact is, it's a singing competition, and they can't sing."
He also said "We've got to raise the game now and explain it is a singing competition....." Wouldn't a "singing competition" be considered a talent show, judged on a contestant's ability to sing well?

I know it has to be entertaining but it's supposed to be entertaining because of the talent of the contestants, not their lack of talent.
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Old 09-11-2009, 12:51   #220
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Guys, please tell me that we are all aware that this is NOT a talent show and never has been.
Of course it's always been about making money....but initially it was also about finding the best singer/performer. The fact that seems to have died a death over the years just means it has gradually moved to being even more about the money and less about the talent.
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