Welfare mothers to be forced to work

[AboveTheSalt]

Originally Posted by Pheebs

See now you say educationally challenged but these girls weren't.

I really didn't express myself very well there, did I

I didn't mean to suggest that the girls you describe were "educationally challenged". I quoted a particular example of which I am aware, where a "not very bright" woman keeps having children simply because she lacks the sense to do otherwise. She will produce children who may well follow the same path in the future. How does one break this cycle, other than by a fairly drastic attack on her rights as a woman?

The same would apply in the case of a reasonably intelligent girl or woman who sees having children as a desirable "life choice".

Originally Posted by Desmo

The solution for me is to replace most of the money handed out with vouchers. Vouchers can be accepted anywhere, in any shop, but only on certain items. Now you can reduce the benefits being handed out and make sure it's only spent on necessary items and not beer, fags, sky and consoles.

Seems reasonable except that I suspect that the recipients of the vouchers would soon find a way of converting them into more "usable" currency and you would end up devising ever more complex ways of administering them.

Still, might help to get the unemployment figures down, so perhaps you are onto a winner

[Garp]

Originally Posted by AboveTheSalt

Seems reasonable except that I suspect that the recipients of the vouchers would soon find a way of converting them into more "usable" currency and you would end up devising ever more complex ways of administering them.

Still, might help to get the unemployment figures down, so perhaps you are onto a winner

Agreed, good idea. You'd be almost guaranteed see a return of the post-WWII style black market, but I imagine it would be fairly easy to police such things. If they're on benefits require them to prove how their financial incomes and outgoings work, or such like.

[Tiggy]

Originally Posted by Garp

If they're on benefits require them to prove how their financial incomes and outgoings work, or such like.

We already have to do that.

I'm going to stay out of this thread now. I am so fed up of explaining my situation whenever the topic of single parents comes up

[phykell]

Originally Posted by AboveTheSalt

I am aware of a local "educationally challenged" woman who has had ten children, with more than one man. All have been taken into care, shortly after birth. It seems likely that some of them at least are also "educationally challenged" and will probably end up following their mother's path. What do you do?

In the worst cases, prison or community service, preferably the latter of course.

I know it sounds drastic but if you were to neglect a pet you would be punished and rightly so. If a woman chooses to have children without the means to support them, then that's negligence in my opinion and she should be punished accordingly.

Having children (or pets) should never be a right, they should always be considered a privilege. It's a shame more parents don't see their kids as such.

Personally, I find it abhorrent that I have no choice but to fund these people's life choices. There are far more deserving cases for my charity.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by AboveTheSalt

I didn't mean to suggest that the girls you describe were "educationally challenged". I quoted a particular example of which I am aware, where a "not very bright" woman keeps having children simply because she lacks the sense to do otherwise. She will produce children who may well follow the same path in the future. How does one break this cycle, other than by a fairly drastic attack on her rights as a woman?

For all its ills, this might be a case where an ID card scheme would actually make some sense. If implemented properly, you would need such a card both to receive these 'vouchers' and to spend them. That's going to make any fraud attempt somewhat challenging, though it could of course lead to an increase in trade of stolen IDs.

[Tiggy]

Just please make sure you don't lump all single Mothers into the same category.

Some of us didn't have children just so we'd get a house and free money.

Some of us got really screwed and ended up with a choice, become homeless with a young baby or have a roof over our heads and food.

I worked full time before I had Megan. I went on maternity leave, and then a few weeks before I was due to go back to work, her Dad left us.

Because of my depression, I was strongly advised not to go back to work, and also how the heck was I going to pay for childcare?

I went back to work when I was ready, and got screwed around, the job centre and the people who deal with benefits urged me to quit and go back on benefits.

Then I found out I was pregnant with Toby. I couldn't get another job because I had complications early on in my pregnancy, and then later on I was having physio twice a week. I'm still suffering with my back now. And I'm also suffering with other things too.

Not all of us had our lives turn out remotely like we'd hoped and planned. I should've been happily married living in my own house with a mortgage, pfft, he had other ideas!

[Mark]

I think (hope) we're all mature enough to not do that Tiggy. The key here is being prepared to work. We all recognise there are genuine reasons why some mothers can't work, and that the people that cause the problems are the ones who sit around at home making babies seemingly only for the sake of receiving more benefit. It should be obvious which category you fall into.

[phykell]

Originally Posted by Mark

I think (hope) we're all mature enough to not do that Tiggy. The key here is being prepared to work. We all recognise there are genuine reasons why some mothers can't work, and that the people that cause the problems are the ones who sit around at home making babies seemingly only for the sake of receiving more benefit. It should be obvious which category you fall into.

Agreed.

[cleanbluesky]

Originally Posted by Mark

I think (hope) we're all mature enough to not do that Tiggy. The key here is being prepared to work. We all recognise there are genuine reasons why some mothers can't work, and that the people that cause the problems are the ones who sit around at home making babies seemingly only for the sake of receiving more benefit. It should be obvious which category you fall into.

This comment is based on assumption, there are no 'categories', no clear boundaries - you speak about them as if they were a cohesive group yet you have no knowledge of who these people are or their prevalence amongst society. This initiative only serves for Labour to divert more attention to one group as supposed scroungers, while they fill their second home full of blenders and LCD TVs from the John Lewis list at our expense.

[phykell]

Originally Posted by cleanbluesky

This comment is based on assumption, there are no 'categories', no clear boundaries - you speak about them as if they were a cohesive group yet you have no knowledge of who these people are or their prevalence amongst society. This initiative only serves for Labour to divert more attention to one group as supposed scroungers, while they fill their second home full of blenders and LCD TVs from the John Lewis list at our expense.

I think that was the original point. Tiggy rightly suggested that single mothers shouldn't be lumped into one category. Mark, and then I, agreed.