The Budget - Page 3

Mark · 22-06-2010, 20:10

I agree, which is why I also have no problem (other than natural disappointment) at higher rate taxpayers not benefiting from the personal allowance increase. Actually, it's a real-terms cut.

Briggykins · 22-06-2010, 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knipples

I am also in the camp that if you earn over a certain amount in your household (lets say 50k) that you shouldn't be able to claim things like child benefit and tax credit, because lets face it, earning that kind of money, you aren't really going to have your lifestyle changed by receiving an extra 15 quid a week, however it would mean a whole lot more to someones household who is only earning 20k a year.

Completely agree. Osborne said with some pride that 'We've managed to avoid means-testing the child benefit'. Well why not? Save some money that way rather than raising the rate of VAT, which always hits the poorest hardest.

Matblack · 22-06-2010, 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Briggykins

Completely agree. Osborne said with some pride that 'We've managed to avoid means-testing the child benefit'. Well why not? Save some money that way rather than raising the rate of VAT, which always hits the poorest hardest.

The system for means testing such a small amount would cost more than just letting people have the money

MB

Will · 22-06-2010, 20:19

VAT is obviously the easiest way to increase tax collection that much is clear, and if they're really serious about increasing revenues then income tax should go up too (I can't believe I'm saying this!!!) Clearly I'd prefer not to pay more tax! Unfortunately that may be a pain we may have to go through to help get the country back on a proper footing.

There may be a case for increasing corporate tax too, but then again the tax take from corporate tax is actually quite small vs income tax and NIC. There are arguments not to raise it to help small businesses which could be incorporated if they are clever - these in turn hopefully will employ more people who will pay income tax. So ultimately they may well leave corporate tax rates where they are - unless they can do a means tested one. i.e. help small businesses like Desmo by not changing corporation tax, and bigger companies can? Is that an idea?

What may happen is some relief funds for businesses will be withdrawn (understandably) so whilst the headline tax rates stay the same or doesn't go up much, extra tax will be collected owing to the withdrawal of those relief funds.

No doubt some strong words on tax avoidance too, but all they ever do is target specific schemes they know about, and in fact Labour actually did quite well in demonising the tax avoidance industry, which is a good thing IMO.

I think its debatable whether cutting or continuing to spend will add or subtract growth in the long run. However I am certain that continuing to borrow increases risk that the entire country will get downgraded. Labour never got the fact that there is a limit to borrowing - what investors are willing to lend ...

Will · 22-06-2010, 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grandad

seems reasonably fair given the circumstances though with the size of the deficit I am not sure it is enough

Indeed - too little too late? I don't know what else they could do... Other than some rather drastic things which would not be popular at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knipples

I'll happily take a pay freeze if it means I get to keep my job, that said I don't earn enough (they said 21k and over) in a year for that to affect me.

I am also in the camp that if you earn over a certain amount in your household (lets say 50k) that you shouldn't be able to claim things like child benefit and tax credit, because lets face it, earning that kind of money, you aren't really going to have your lifestyle changed by receiving an extra 15 quid a week, however it would mean a whole lot more to someones household who is only earning 20k a year.

Agreed on all counts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark

I agree, which is why I also have no problem (other than natural disappointment) at higher rate taxpayers not benefiting from the personal allowance increase. Actually, it's a real-terms cut.

Indeed.

Glaucus · 22-06-2010, 20:38

seems pretty good especially corporate tax, although things haven't gone far enough, but I suppose governments can't do to much at once due to public opinion.

unfortunately I fear that public spending cuts will be left down to managers and will be cut in totally the wrong areas, without the massive reorg it needs.

Unions breed incompetency, standard pay rises and the likes reinforce that. A lot of if your face fits you get promoted regardless how rubbish you are, or promoted and sidelined so you can't interfere.

Will · 22-06-2010, 20:44

Ugh, Unions...

The thing is there's so much bloat and waste in the PS, it's either get rid of the assistant, to the secretary's assistant, advisor, photocopier's assistant. Or freeze their pay. The PS play a vital role, and are required, but it's always the wrong people that get targeted in these things. If they got rid of the assistant, to the secretary's assistant, advisor, photocopier's assistant, and had good management and efficient workers and no bloat, then I doubt there would be much of a problem.

Personally I'd like a huge LEAN over view of the PS and do process improvement and efficiency reviews and I reckon a lot of efficiencies could be found, more profitability but unfortunately a lot of waste and low hanging fruit.

Matblack · 22-06-2010, 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will

Ugh, Unions...

The thing is there's so much bloat and waste in the PS, it's either get rid of the assistant, to the secretary's assistant, advisor, photocopier's assistant. Or freeze their pay. The PS play a vital role, and are required, but it's always the wrong people that get targeted in these things. If they got rid of the assistant, to the secretary's assistant, advisor, photocopier's assistant, and had good management and efficient workers and no bloat, then I doubt there would be much of a problem.

Personally I'd like a huge LEAN over view of the PS and do process improvement and efficiency reviews and I reckon a lot of efficiencies could be found, more profitability but unfortunately a lot of waste and low hanging fruit.

I must be blind because what you describe is not what I see when I go to work everyday. Education is going to be cut and I honestly can't see where to cut it, there are very few people in our organisation who aren't vital and I certainly don't see a lot of assistants running around wasting resources. Maybe I am the waste of resources

MB

Will · 22-06-2010, 20:49

You know there's more to the PS that just education yeah?

Matblack · 22-06-2010, 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will

You know there's more to the PS that just education yeah?

Yes but I suspect that people in the NHS are saying the same thing about the NHS. What I do know is the there is going to be less of education, less by 25%

MB

22-06-2010, 20:19	#24
Will BBx woz 'ere :P Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 2,147,487,208	VAT is obviously the easiest way to increase tax collection that much is clear, and if they're really serious about increasing revenues then income tax should go up too (I can't believe I'm saying this!!!) Clearly I'd prefer not to pay more tax! Unfortunately that may be a pain we may have to go through to help get the country back on a proper footing. There may be a case for increasing corporate tax too, but then again the tax take from corporate tax is actually quite small vs income tax and NIC. There are arguments not to raise it to help small businesses which could be incorporated if they are clever - these in turn hopefully will employ more people who will pay income tax. So ultimately they may well leave corporate tax rates where they are - unless they can do a means tested one. i.e. help small businesses like Desmo by not changing corporation tax, and bigger companies can? Is that an idea? What may happen is some relief funds for businesses will be withdrawn (understandably) so whilst the headline tax rates stay the same or doesn't go up much, extra tax will be collected owing to the withdrawal of those relief funds. No doubt some strong words on tax avoidance too, but all they ever do is target specific schemes they know about, and in fact Labour actually did quite well in demonising the tax avoidance industry, which is a good thing IMO. I think its debatable whether cutting or continuing to spend will add or subtract growth in the long run. However I am certain that continuing to borrow increases risk that the entire country will get downgraded. Labour never got the fact that there is a limit to borrowing - what investors are willing to lend ... __________________ *No No!*

22-06-2010, 20:38	#26
Glaucus Absinthe Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,855	seems pretty good especially corporate tax, although things haven't gone far enough, but I suppose governments can't do to much at once due to public opinion. unfortunately I fear that public spending cuts will be left down to managers and will be cut in totally the wrong areas, without the massive reorg it needs. Unions breed incompetency, standard pay rises and the likes reinforce that. A lot of if your face fits you get promoted regardless how rubbish you are, or promoted and sidelined so you can't interfere. __________________ Last edited by Glaucus; 22-06-2010 at 20:41.

22-06-2010, 20:44	#27
Will BBx woz 'ere :P Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 2,147,487,208	Ugh, Unions... The thing is there's so much bloat and waste in the PS, it's either get rid of the assistant, to the secretary's assistant, advisor, photocopier's assistant. Or freeze their pay. The PS play a vital role, and are required, but it's always the wrong people that get targeted in these things. If they got rid of the assistant, to the secretary's assistant, advisor, photocopier's assistant, and had good management and efficient workers and no bloat, then I doubt there would be much of a problem. Personally I'd like a huge LEAN over view of the PS and do process improvement and efficiency reviews and I reckon a lot of efficiencies could be found, more profitability but unfortunately a lot of waste and low hanging fruit. __________________ *No No!*

22-06-2010, 20:49	#29
Will BBx woz 'ere :P Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 2,147,487,208	You know there's more to the PS that just education yeah? __________________ *No No!*

22-06-2010, 20:10	#21
Mark Screaming Orgasm Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Newbury Posts: 15,194	I agree, which is why I also have no problem (other than natural disappointment) at higher rate taxpayers not benefiting from the personal allowance increase. Actually, it's a real-terms cut.