Here i go again, Linux what flavour? - Page 4

Chuckles · 29-10-2007, 01:07

Sorry if this is a little off topic but I've only got experience with SCSI based RAID solutions. I assume if your card dies you can't read the config back in off the drives then like you can with SCSI? What about if you got a replacement card and set up the config the same?

IMO I would allways go with hardware because IME I've never had a hardware failure on a RAID card on over 100 servers, but I've had plenty of instances where the OS is totally screwed and if you were on software RAID you would lose your data.

LeperousDust · 29-10-2007, 01:12

Yeah you're right it will probably never go wrong, but the hardware raid card i have isn't actually hardware at all anyway, theyre only dynamic or logical or whatever drives in windows, when that goes poop i'm not sure how easy it is to replace. Windows and dynamic disks is apparently a recipie for trouble so i've heard? Also as you say if it did go i'd have to buy another replacement card and they're not cheap, apart from the fact i actually got this one cheap (normally i wouldnt pay for the 4 port cards) just general cheap interface cards.

Mark · 29-10-2007, 01:14

I agree - boot issue sounds like the MBR. Are you using a SATA CD-ROM drive perchance? If so, the drives might have got swapped around, which can be fun to fix manually but it's possible. You can try swapping around the SATA connectors to see if that helps, but take a note of where they are now in case it gets worse.

LeperousDust · 29-10-2007, 01:17

I've got a PATA old samsung DVD drive. Two sammy drives on the same controller on the mobo, two seagate drives on a promise controller on the mobo, and two seagate drives on the rocketraid controller plugged in a PCI slot. What should i swap around where? You mean i have to literally open the PC up and change the cables around until something happens? Thats a nightmare i've got the rats nest sorted out that'll wreck everything! Arg, this solidifies my point about linux

Does my head in honeslty!

Mark · 29-10-2007, 01:18

Ah, could be trying to boot off the wrong sammy. Try unplugging the other one and see if that helps.

Chuckles · 29-10-2007, 01:21

Ah well if it isn't a "Proper" hardware RAID and the arrays are managed to some extent by the OS rather than the card itself then that would change the situation entirely

As regards Linux, it kind of depends on whether you want to do this as a project and expand your knowledge or whether you quickly need a working system in order. You'll find that doing this kind of stuff in Linux will expand your knowledge greatly but there is a big learning curve and it is very fiddly at times. I'm sure you're pretty proficiant at Windows and you could simply bung in a server 2k/2003 CD and have this all set up in 30 mins

Dr. Z · 29-10-2007, 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by starscream

Sorry if this is a little off topic but I've only got experience with SCSI based RAID solutions. I assume if your card dies you can't read the config back in off the drives then like you can with SCSI? What about if you got a replacement card and set up the config the same?

IMO I would allways go with hardware because IME I've never had a hardware failure on a RAID card on over 100 servers, but I've had plenty of instances where the OS is totally screwed and if you were on software RAID you would lose your data.

Not with Linux software raid (depending on the implementation). If you lose an OS drive you just reinstall and then just remount the array (with a few more command-line options) and its back, unlike my experience with Windows software RAID.

SCSI-based real hardware raid controllers are infinitely preferable - but he doesn't have one of these and by suggesting a windows-based solution in this context you are advocating exactly what just you advised against

Quote:

Originally Posted by starscream

Ah well if it isn't a "Proper" hardware RAID and the arrays are managed to some extent by the OS rather than the card itself then that would change the situation entirely

As regards Linux, it kind of depends on whether you want to do this as a project and expand your knowledge or whether you quickly need a working system in order. You'll find that doing this kind of stuff in Linux will expand your knowledge greatly but there is a big learning curve and it is very fiddly at times. I'm sure you're pretty proficiant at Windows and you could simply bung in a server 2k/2003 CD and have this all set up in 30 mins

True enough about the time thing - I have been using Linux on and off for many years now (although only in the past 3 or so years in anger) and its still a learning spree every time I do something new - but personally I find that far better than the murky world of guessing with Windows (which is really what administering a windows server feels like in comparison).

Although setting up a fileserver in Linux with RAID etc took me the best part of a day including all the required reading and planning, I now know exactly what its doing (and can check on it exactly when I want to!) and I know exactly what I would need to do if/when it all goes wrong.

LeperousDust · 29-10-2007, 01:29

Your not wrong i'm already reconsidering warming up the download

Mark, i've set in the BIOS the only hard drive to boot from is the "first" sammy drive which i installed linux on, so would that be passed to the grub loader at all? Hmmm gonna crack the case open see what happens then i guess, loads of hassle though the sata connections are so badly designed, it infuriates me!

Mark · 29-10-2007, 01:33

Just to make it even more confusing, there are real hardware SATA and IDE, but they're rare beasts. I have an IDE card that's been through a complete system rebuild at least twice, a RAID rebuild with bigger disks, a crashed head, flexing the card to get it into the case (it's scarily bendy), and 24/7 for four years. What can I say?

The biggest problems I've had was with the drivers - the Linux kernel devs totally fubar'd them in 2.6.18 and I ended up posting on lkml asking for a fix (which, to their credit, was done in 2.6.21).

Chuckles · 29-10-2007, 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRZ

Not with Linux software raid (depending on the implementation). If you lose an OS drive you just reinstall and then just remount the array (with a few more command-line options) and its back, unlike my experience with Windows software RAID.

Yeah, but I don't mean about if you lose a drive which you are allways going to be covered whatever form of RAID you impliment. With a software RAID, you are relient on the OS. If your OS gets so messed up you can't boot or recover then even with no hardware failures on the drives you are going to lose your data. With hardware raid, all the config for the data drives is held in the cards so you could simply reinstall the OS and remount the drive. IME this situation is more likely than the SCSI controller totally failing. However, if it isn't a a true hardware RAID because it is reliant on the OS to some extent, the above isn't really relevent

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMZ

SCSI-based real hardware raid controllers are infinitely preferable - but he doesn't have one of these and by suggesting a windows-based solution in this context you are advocating exactly what just you advised against

Indeed, if this isn't a "Real" hardware controller then my above advice isn't really very good

It seems to me that having a hardware controller that relies on the software is a bit pointless though!

29-10-2007, 01:07	#31
Chuckles '09 sexual conquests: 4.5 Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,075	Sorry if this is a little off topic but I've only got experience with SCSI based RAID solutions. I assume if your card dies you can't read the config back in off the drives then like you can with SCSI? What about if you got a replacement card and set up the config the same? IMO I would allways go with hardware because IME I've never had a hardware failure on a RAID card on over 100 servers, but I've had plenty of instances where the OS is totally screwed and if you were on software RAID you would lose your data. __________________

29-10-2007, 01:12	#32
LeperousDust Bananaman Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Liverpool/Edinburgh Posts: 4,817	Yeah you're right it will probably never go wrong, but the hardware raid card i have isn't actually hardware at all anyway, theyre only dynamic or logical or whatever drives in windows, when that goes poop i'm not sure how easy it is to replace. Windows and dynamic disks is apparently a recipie for trouble so i've heard? Also as you say if it did go i'd have to buy another replacement card and they're not cheap, apart from the fact i actually got this one cheap (normally i wouldnt pay for the 4 port cards) just general cheap interface cards. __________________

29-10-2007, 01:17	#34
LeperousDust Bananaman Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Liverpool/Edinburgh Posts: 4,817	I've got a PATA old samsung DVD drive. Two sammy drives on the same controller on the mobo, two seagate drives on a promise controller on the mobo, and two seagate drives on the rocketraid controller plugged in a PCI slot. What should i swap around where? You mean i have to literally open the PC up and change the cables around until something happens? Thats a nightmare i've got the rats nest sorted out that'll wreck everything! Arg, this solidifies my point about linux Does my head in honeslty! __________________

29-10-2007, 01:21	#36
Chuckles '09 sexual conquests: 4.5 Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,075	Ah well if it isn't a "Proper" hardware RAID and the arrays are managed to some extent by the OS rather than the card itself then that would change the situation entirely As regards Linux, it kind of depends on whether you want to do this as a project and expand your knowledge or whether you quickly need a working system in order. You'll find that doing this kind of stuff in Linux will expand your knowledge greatly but there is a big learning curve and it is very fiddly at times. I'm sure you're pretty proficiant at Windows and you could simply bung in a server 2k/2003 CD and have this all set up in 30 mins __________________

29-10-2007, 01:29	#38
LeperousDust Bananaman Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Liverpool/Edinburgh Posts: 4,817	Your not wrong i'm already reconsidering warming up the download Mark, i've set in the BIOS the only hard drive to boot from is the "first" sammy drive which i installed linux on, so would that be passed to the grub loader at all? Hmmm gonna crack the case open see what happens then i guess, loads of hassle though the sata connections are so badly designed, it infuriates me! __________________

29-10-2007, 01:14	#33
Mark Screaming Orgasm Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Newbury Posts: 15,194	I agree - boot issue sounds like the MBR. Are you using a SATA CD-ROM drive perchance? If so, the drives might have got swapped around, which can be fun to fix manually but it's possible. You can try swapping around the SATA connectors to see if that helps, but take a note of where they are now in case it gets worse.

29-10-2007, 01:18	#35
Mark Screaming Orgasm Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Newbury Posts: 15,194	Ah, could be trying to boot off the wrong sammy. Try unplugging the other one and see if that helps.

29-10-2007, 01:33	#39
Mark Screaming Orgasm Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Newbury Posts: 15,194	Just to make it even more confusing, there are real hardware SATA and IDE, but they're rare beasts. I have an IDE card that's been through a complete system rebuild at least twice, a RAID rebuild with bigger disks, a crashed head, flexing the card to get it into the case (it's scarily bendy), and 24/7 for four years. What can I say? The biggest problems I've had was with the drivers - the Linux kernel devs totally fubar'd them in 2.6.18 and I ended up posting on lkml asking for a fix (which, to their credit, was done in 2.6.21).