Is it stupid to think.............

[A Place of Light]

I think that once it becomes apparent that the other person (s) in your discussion will never see your side of things, mainly because it's your opinion and not one they'd made themselves, then it's time to bail out of that discussion. Too many people make their mind up about something ONCE then absolutely refuse to even consider that they may be wrong.

Sorry for the thread revival, but I've had other things to deal with and haven't been about as much as I'd liked to have been.

[dirtydog]

Originally Posted by Matblack

I think number 4 is whats going on here

People involved think they are cleverer than you and will try to use big words and twist things until you just give up.

(I think I shall dub this CleanBlueSky thinking.)

It might help people to form an opinion more if I tell you the people involved are CBS, Dirtydog and another muppet who doesn't seem to be able to think past the end of this boover boot :/

I've decided to give up, I've made my point, defended stereotypes which have been imposed on me and I'm just getting bored now

MB

O rly?

[cleanbluesky]

Originally Posted by Matblack

I think number 4 is whats going on here

People involved think they are cleverer than you and will try to use big words and twist things until you just give up.

(I think I shall dub this CleanBlueSky thinking.)

It might help people to form an opinion more if I tell you the people involved are CBS, Dirtydog and another muppet who doesn't seem to be able to think past the end of this boover boot :/

I've decided to give up, I've made my point, defended stereotypes which have been imposed on me and I'm just getting bored now

MB

I use big words naturally, I read a lot. Rumour has it I come across as thinking I am smarter than other people, but I don't think its a case of one person being smarter than the other - I'm educated and I have no desire to hide that fact in order to forge a rapport with people - in short, I am who I am and I would rather be who I am than hide it in caseothers might be offended by that.

Regarding changing people's minds, that would require the belief that you are right - which would mean that your viewpoint is as inflexible as those you claim to be arguing with. Do you not fit into the category of poster that you are bemoaning? Complaining that others wont change their viewpoint yet never considering whether you should change your own?

[Wryel]

Originally Posted by cleanbluesky

Regarding changing people's minds, that would require the belief that you are right - which would mean that your viewpoint is as inflexible as those you claim to be arguing with. Do you not fit into the category of poster that you are bemoaning? Complaining that others wont change their viewpoint yet never considering whether you should change your own?

You surely need some conviction in your arguments though or what's the point in having an opinon? If I believe something strongly enough I wouldn't try and force someone to change their mind but I will argue my point until they understand my point of view. Maybe the OP was simply asking, 'do you believe in anything enough that you would never change your mind and think everyone else should feel the same?'

[cleanbluesky]

Originally Posted by Wryel

You surely need some conviction in your arguments though or what's the point in having an opinon? If I believe something strongly enough I wouldn't try and force someone to change their mind but I will argue my point until they understand my point of view. Maybe the OP was simply asking, 'do you believe in anything enough that you would never change your mind and think everyone else should feel the same?'

The OP carries the assumption that said people SHOULD change their mind, which in turn suggests that he is right and they are wrong.

The answer to the original question lies in WHY people hold their opinion. If person A believes something that isn't true and person B provides evidence that it isn't true, then person A would change their view of the world unless they simply wanted to believe a lie.

[AboveTheSalt]

Originally Posted by cleanbluesky

The OP carries the assumption that said people SHOULD change their mind, which in turn suggests that he is right and they are wrong.

Yes, I had noticed this rather strange starting point. There are also a whole range of questions as to where one draws lines between opinions, views, prejudices, etc.

Originally Posted by cleanbluesky

The answer to the original question lies in WHY people hold their opinion. If person A believes something that isn't true and person B provides evidence that it isn't true, then person A would change their view of the world unless they simply wanted to believe a lie.

There is also the whole issue of instances where it is impossible realistically to determine that one view is "right" or "wrong" - religious faith is a very obvious example.

Originally Posted by Von Smallhausen

... certain people I have come across on the web are so ingrained through arrogance and lack of life experience that they are beyond rational argument.

Irony or what

[semi-pro waster]

Originally Posted by cleanbluesky

The OP carries the assumption that said people SHOULD change their mind, which in turn suggests that he is right and they are wrong.

It's a question, you could rephrase it as "would I be naive to think that peoples opinions could be changed with a rational argument?". The answer to that is that it depends on the person in my experience, some people will respond to a rational argument and acknowledge that they are/could be wrong, others will ignore/deflect any suggestion of the sort.

Originally Posted by cleanbluesky

The answer to the original question lies in WHY people hold their opinion. If person A believes something that isn't true and person B provides evidence that it isn't true, then person A would change their view of the world unless they simply wanted to believe a lie.

Or they don't believe it to be a lie, they may very firmly hold their view of the World as true. My truth is not necessarily the same as yours even if I base it on exactly the same evidence, my experiences will shape my viewpoint. Also on subjective areas (and of course these are usually the most contentious) absolute empirical evidence is frequently hard to come by.

[Wryel]

Originally Posted by cleanbluesky

The OP carries the assumption that said people SHOULD change their mind, which in turn suggests that he is right and they are wrong.

The answer to the original question lies in WHY people hold their opinion. If person A believes something that isn't true and person B provides evidence that it isn't true, then person A would change their view of the world unless they simply wanted to believe a lie.

Ok then, is it stupid to think you could change someones deep seated opinions and prejudices through rational argument on the internet? I'm assuming you'll say yes it is stupid as you believe you shouldn't expect someone to change their opinion when you won't.

[cleanbluesky]

Originally Posted by Wryel

Ok then, is it stupid to think you could change someones deep seated opinions and prejudices through rational argument on the internet? I'm assuming you'll say yes it is stupid as you believe you shouldn't expect someone to change their opinion when you won't.

The statement still carries an implied assumption. If the question were "Is it possible to change someone's mind over the internet?" then I'd say yes, but it depends on WHY they believe what they believe.

[dirtydog]

Originally Posted by Wryel

Ok then, is it stupid to think you could change someones deep seated opinions and prejudices through rational argument on the internet? I'm assuming you'll say yes it is stupid as you believe you shouldn't expect someone to change their opinion when you won't.

But it is a loaded question isn't it. Just because MB considers my or CBS's opinions to be prejudiced or based on ignorance etc. doesn't make it the truth, it is just his opinion. As CBS says, it is ironic that MB appears to be the very type of person he is criticising.