Where have peoples manners gone to ?

[cleanbluesky]

Originally Posted by Garp

Wherever I've travelled I've found better manners than in the UK. They seem to have not lost that sense of community that appears to be lost around here, or at least certainly down in the South. It seems the majority of people know more about what is happening in the lives of characters in Soaps than they do about their neighbours. I wonder how many of their neighbours people on BD can name? How many of them do they know anything about more than just the basics?
Most places across eastern Europe I've been to (and in those places I've been away from the cities), including the '3rd world' ones have a very strong emphasis on being good hosts, to the point where it can be very awkward for visitors not used to the culture (e.g. you can't say "That's a nice rug" because they'll be honour bound to give it to you, and to refuse would be highly rude). Anyone seen to be bad hosts tends to be ostracised by the people around them.

What I've quoted is full of useless generalisation, but it did make me question whether I am generalising and I think that manners aren't uniform, even in poor areas of the world. They can be very individual and depend on how a person has grown up within their family and also why you come into contact with people.

I consider many foreigners to lack manners, and social awareness, although that may be just because many who stick out are either foreign or chavs.

Originally Posted by Garp

but what is appalling are the middle class and upper class people. It's not that they barge you or do anything quite so dramatic and ugly as the Chavs, but when out and about their complete obliviousness to everything going on around them, so focussed on getting to their destination courtesy doesn't even register as a blip on their radar. To them there seems to be no one else in the world. That attitude carries on into other stuff, be it simple things like holding open doors, or the more showy stuff like offering your umbrella to a woman without one when it's raining.

Middle and upper class people have an entirely different set of manners and are usually more socially adept than working class people, and opening doors for people really isn't neccessarily manners. Besides, it can be useful to break etiquette in social situations as long as it is done with confidence, which may be why you percieve middle/upper class people as lacking manners.

[Lomster]

I know what you mean Olibubble, My eldest Bro is the same
I have to tell him to use manners as my children bloody do.

I always say thank you if someone opens door for me (I say sometimes as most of the time people watch me struggle with double buggy with Josh trying to hold door open) and if my children or myself bump into anyone I always say sorry.
I almost lost it with a woman at chessington last month as she bumped into my pushchair and gave me an evil look as if it was my fault.
I made sure her husband heard me moaning about her to Iain lol.

[cleanbluesky]

I was on crutches over the summer and lots of people would offer to help me and I got offered seats on almost every bus/train I used, despite the fact that I was resolute not to take any help.

[Knipples]

Originally Posted by Lomster

I always say thank you if someone opens door for me (I say sometimes as most of the time people watch me struggle with double buggy with Josh trying to hold door open)

Grrr thats another thing that bugs me, people struggling with buggies and no one helps them, getting on and off of buses or trains or through doors, and I will always (if I safely can) stop if theres someone with children waiting to cross the road at a junction.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by Kitten

I've spent a fair amount of time in America (on different coasts) and in my experience it seems to be that Americans in service, are much more polite because the customers expect it. However in their everyday lives, those customers, and Americans in general, are far less polite to those in service than we are. I'm constantly amazed when they come and pour you water or bring bread and the other diners don't even acknowledge their existence.

Have to agree here - I somewhat hinted at the service thing as I've also noticed this. A sizeable part of this is the fact that they're so dependant on tips for their living. No manners = no money.

I think that generalisations on class/ethnic/racial origins are bound to fail here. All societies have their good and their bad.

I've been to Madeira and encountered incredibly friendly and helpful taxi drivers, and then gone down to the local supermarket and encountered the miserable sods working check-out.

I've been to Bulgaria and work colleagues have taken me to restaurants where the staff speak barely a word of English, but they do their best to help nonetheless, yet woe betide you if you try to cross a busy road.

Also, we can only make comparative judgements when we have regular experience. We can safely say that good manners are on the wane here, but can we make the same comparisons elsewhere? Probably not.

[NokkonWud]

Originally Posted by AboveTheSalt

I have visited about a dozen places in the USA and whilst I would agree with you about San Francisco, Dallas and New Orleans, I would definitely disagree so far as Miami and New York are concerned. I found the New Yorkers typically to be about as rude as any group of people I have ever encountered. Other placed I have visited in the US seemed no better or worse than the UK.

You make a good point. My Gran came back from Miami about 4 years ago and she said she was stunned by the rudeness of the people there.

[cleanbluesky]

Originally Posted by Mark

Also, we can only make comparative judgements when we have regular experience. We can safely say that good manners are on the wane here, but can we make the same comparisons elsewhere? Probably not.

Human beings make judgements all the time, what you are suggesting is not that we are not fit to make them on others but that we should only share them about our own culture. I feel free to comment on whatever I wish.

[Garp]

Originally Posted by cleanbluesky/ Reuters

Human beings make judgements all the time, what you are suggesting is not that we are not fit to make them on others but that we should only share them about our own culture. I feel free to comment on whatever I wish.

But then you go and criticise people that make the self same sort of judgements....

[Mark]

And, to be clear, I never said that you couldn't comment - but unfortunately in this instance comment without experience means pretty much squat. Of course, if you do have the experience, then relate away. Sorry for being rather blunt there.

[AboveTheSalt]

Originally Posted by Garp

I've lived in the East End of London in a fairly dodgy area, surrounded by Polish, Hungarians, Saffers, Irish, Jews, Iranians and probably pretty much every racial or religious group there is. White Caucasian was the definite ethnic minority. I've also spent time in North and West London, and hung out with people from all over the city. Everywhere I've been, shops, on the buses, in pubs, chatting with people and seeing their general behaviour, almost without fail its been the Brits with the worst behaviour, the Jews with the best, and Hungarians not far behind. The Polish were the most diverse group out there for behaviour.

Now, you've set me to wondering, how did you manage to identify to which "racial or religious group" each of these people belonged

I simply can't imagine meeting a stranger on a bus or in a pub and asking to see their passport.