iPhone 3G[s] - Page 49

Mark · 13-07-2009, 15:41

I assume it still offers things like online disk storage. I got a years .Mac with my Mac Mini and it sat there laughing at me, unused. Won't be signing up for MobileMe unless there's a very good reason.

Burble · 13-07-2009, 15:42

Apart from what you've listed it won't give you anything new, but it would make some things easier.

My contacts and calendars sync to my iPhone OTA using Mobile Me and that's a huge bonus for me. That means I make a change on either one of the laptops or the iPhone and that change is then automatically made on the other devices. That may not be something of interest to you, but for me it's something I'd sorely miss.

Changing email addresses is a complete ball ache, hence why I use my own domain names. I go a few steps further and run my own mail server but that's just because I've been bitten a few times with hosting issues out of my control.

Kreeeee · 13-07-2009, 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matblack

I'm hoping that a few charges will condition the battery over time as its pretty patetic in my opinion but thats the only neg for me.

MB

It shouldn't have any effect at all due to the nature of modern batteries. Any effect will be a placebo or due to the "new toy syndrome" wearing off and you using it less often.

Mark · 13-07-2009, 15:57

... or due to the device 'learning' the capacity of the battery. That's the most likely cause and certainly wouldn't be placebo.

Burble · 13-07-2009, 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kreeeee

It shouldn't have any effect at all due to the nature of modern batteries. Any effect will be a placebo or due to the "new toy syndrome" wearing off and you using it less often.

It shouldn't, but it does. Desmo and I (and maybe others that I've missed) have noticed that battery life does improve from how it is out of the box. It's definitely not a placebo.

If anything I've been using the phone more lately than when I first got it because work is quieter and it's actually got my phone number attached to it which wasn't the case for the first week or so.

Kreeeee · 13-07-2009, 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burble

It shouldn't, but it does. Desmo and I (and maybe others that I've missed) have noticed that battery life does improve from how it is out of the box. It's definitely not a placebo.

I never said that. The battery will definitely be inefficient at first, but it's general usage that improves the initial battery life as the physical components settle in. I was disagreeing with the full charge cycles as they are often very bad for lithium ion batteries which are designed to work best when charged frequently and for small amounts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark

... or due to the device 'learning' the capacity of the battery. That's the most likely cause and certainly wouldn't be placebo.

Sorry but that doesn't happen as lithium ion batteries do not have "memory" like the older variants of rechargeable batteries. If you're referring to the charge indicator calibration, then again it has absolutely zero effect on the physical performance of the battery, just the accuracy of the indicator.

Read up on lipo batteries: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium...n_battery_life

If you know I'm wrong, and can back it up with evidence, please tell me as I want to prolong the battery life of my products!

Mark · 13-07-2009, 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kreeeee

Sorry but that doesn't happen as lithium ion batteries do not have "memory" like the older variants of rechargeable batteries. If you're referring to the charge indicator calibration, then again it has absolutely zero effect on the physical performance of the battery, just the accuracy of the indicator.

And that wasn't what I said either.

I said the device has memory, not the battery. Very few batteries provide accurate 'usage remaining' figures (Sony InfoLITHIUM being a notable exception due to a chip within the battery casing), so the device has to guestimate based on past history.

As for "no memory effect", that's somewhat misleading - that was more to do with premature ageing as all batteries lose performance over time.

Kreeeee · 13-07-2009, 16:31

Right, let's not be pedantic, and sum up the facts:

- Full recharges do nothing for physical battery life and is always bad for the battery

- A battery will condition itself with normal use and improve on it's original battery life without full recharges

- Only ever do a full recharge if your battery indicator is inaccurate, as it ruins lipo batteries

Mark · 13-07-2009, 16:38

They can be one and the same, depending on whether the device shuts off based on its charge indicator estimate, or based on an actual measurement. If the former, this can account for what is being observed because the device can shut off early without regard to the actual capacity remaining in the battery. In the general case it seems most devices use a combination of the two measurements, with varying degrees of success.

As for the comment about full charge cycles, totally agree on that one. It's best not to do it often, but doing it occasionally (e.g. once every 3-6 months) is sometimes necessary. Constant trickle charging (of the sort that typically happens in laptops) is also bad.

Matblack · 13-07-2009, 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark

And that wasn't what I said either.

I said the device has memory, not the battery. Very few batteries provide accurate 'usage remaining' figures (Sony InfoLITHIUM being a notable exception due to a chip within the battery casing), so the device has to guestimate based on past history.

As for "no memory effect", that's somewhat misleading - that was more to do with premature ageing as all batteries lose performance over time.

This does sort of make sense to me, I would imagine that a computer will calculate life based on the amperage of the battery? But do batteries drain at a uniform speed? If they do then the algorythm doesn't need to change but if batteries are variable or change over their life span than the unit needs to be able to adjust its expectations over time. I suppose what I am describing is a little like the 'range' infomation on my car, it will approximate the range left based on my driving style over the last 100 or so miles, if I suddenly develop a featherlight foot it won't be accurate until it has data to base its calculations on. Do devices do this with batteries? Is my iPhone being converative until it can accurately assess the capacity and atributes of the battery? Answer I don't know but this would give some plausibility to the concept of running the battery into the ground so the device learns what the battery can actually do?

Warning, this is me rammbling and may be complete balls

MB

13-07-2009, 16:31	#488
Kreeeee Long Island Iced Tea Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 278	Right, let's not be pedantic, and sum up the facts: - Full recharges do nothing for physical battery life and is always bad for the battery - A battery will condition itself with normal use and improve on it's original battery life without full recharges - Only ever do a full recharge if your battery indicator is inaccurate, as it ruins lipo batteries __________________ Last edited by Kreeeee; 13-07-2009 at 16:37.

13-07-2009, 16:38	#489
Mark Screaming Orgasm Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Newbury Posts: 15,194	They can be one and the same, depending on whether the device shuts off based on its charge indicator estimate, or based on an actual measurement. If the former, this can account for what is being observed because the device can shut off early without regard to the actual capacity remaining in the battery. In the general case it seems most devices use a combination of the two measurements, with varying degrees of success. As for the comment about full charge cycles, totally agree on that one. It's best not to do it often, but doing it occasionally (e.g. once every 3-6 months) is sometimes necessary. Constant trickle charging (of the sort that typically happens in laptops) is also bad. Last edited by Mark; 13-07-2009 at 16:43.

13-07-2009, 15:41	#481
Mark Screaming Orgasm Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Newbury Posts: 15,194	I assume it still offers things like online disk storage. I got a years .Mac with my Mac Mini and it sat there laughing at me, unused. Won't be signing up for MobileMe unless there's a very good reason.

13-07-2009, 15:42	#482
Burble Rocket Fuel Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 7,826	Apart from what you've listed it won't give you anything new, but it would make some things easier. My contacts and calendars sync to my iPhone OTA using Mobile Me and that's a huge bonus for me. That means I make a change on either one of the laptops or the iPhone and that change is then automatically made on the other devices. That may not be something of interest to you, but for me it's something I'd sorely miss. Changing email addresses is a complete ball ache, hence why I use my own domain names. I go a few steps further and run my own mail server but that's just because I've been bitten a few times with hosting issues out of my control.

13-07-2009, 15:57	#484
Mark Screaming Orgasm Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Newbury Posts: 15,194	... or due to the device 'learning' the capacity of the battery. That's the most likely cause and certainly wouldn't be placebo.