Thoughts on Suicide

[Pheebs]

Slightly OT but relevant to any social subject in debate, I have just reminded myself of something my psychology professor used to frequently inform us students:


Each topic is like a statue in the middle of a room. Every theory/solution/bit of information you come across are like lights dotted around the room. If you look at one bit of information, it will only light up one part of the statue giving you a small abstract part to look at and leaving the bigger picture in the dark. The more information and guidance you take into consideration, more of the statue will be lit up.

Very rarely is the statue ever fully revealed as there are always some shadows lurking uncovered, but being as open minded as possible is the essence of being a good psychologist.


Very wise man.

[cleanbluesky]

Originally Posted by Olibubble

you dont think someone can help themselves out of depression?

Not harsh 'clinical' depression, and isolation can often lead to depression. I think a change of circumstances can bring a lift from depression, although lots of depressed people lack the energy or strategy to change their circumstances.

[Gnat]

Originally Posted by cleanbluesky/ Reuters

Not harsh 'clinical' depression, and isolation can often lead to depression. I think a change of circumstances can bring a lift from depression, although lots of depressed people lack the energy or strategy to change their circumstances.

I think it is perfectly possible for even extremely depressed people to help themselves out of it, but i think it takes a lot of work, so is not a case of "snapping out of it" as such, but realising that if they dont do something, that nothing will ever get better.

[chumpychops]

Originally Posted by Pheebs

Slightly OT but relevant to any social subject in debate, I have just reminded myself of something my psychology professor used to frequently inform us students:


Each topic is like a statue in the middle of a room. Every theory/solution/bit of information you come across are like lights dotted around the room. If you look at one bit of information, it will only light up one part of the statue giving you a small abstract part to look at and leaving the bigger picture in the dark. The more information and guidance you take into consideration, more of the statue will be lit up.

Very rarely is the statue ever fully revealed as there are always some shadows lurking uncovered, but being as open minded as possible is the essence of being a good psychologist.


Very wise man.

CBS thinks he has night vision goggles though....

[Pheebs]

Originally Posted by cleanbluesky/ Reuters

Again, tar is rarely useful as a treatment for mental health.

The question is, how do you treat people who cant afford individual treatment. The NHS may be putting money into therapy but 6 sessions of CBT isn't much and I'm betting it will only be offered in support of standardised treatments.

Yes you're right, with regards to treatment, the only way to effectively treat a person is to categorise them using a number of medical tests (which will always have flaws) and then treat them according to that general category. Sadly this doesn't work with everyone but it's the best they can do.

Note... some people with SAD who have extremely happy lifestyle during the summery months but not so during winter occasions have been successfully treated with drugs, thus correcting their chemical imbalance meaning it was namely a physical problem they had little control over. I am sure some of these people may have had some kind of placebo affect to but I have no doubt that there are a large majority who have been "cured" through drugs alone.

Acquiesce then.

I with you or you with I? As said I agree without protest to a lot of what you are saying BUT am saying there's much more to it than what you insist on.

Snap out of it is a brilliant term to describe it, because that's what people do - slowly. Ask any ex depressive how they were cured, and they wont be able to tell you. The reason for this is its mostly unconcious, so finding whatever will make that unconcious change and 'snap out' of their depression can be useful.

You've now spent several posts picking me up on what is essentially, a turn of phrase.

You say "ask any ex depressive" as if you have asked them all and seem to know what everyones reaction will be. This, my friend, is very ignorant I doubt muchly you have had the opportunity to ask every ex depressive how they were cured and I am certain you are not omniscient (despite coming across that you feel you are!)

I think you may use what you study and have learned as biblical. You should be more open minded and accept that, although you know a lot, the knowledge you have is a drop in the ocean and needs to be combined with others to make any sensible usage and judgement! I'm still debating as to whether you are or whether you're just playing a game in this thread

Originally Posted by chumpychops

CBS thinks he has night vision goggles though....

ROFFLECOPTERS!

[cleanbluesky]

Originally Posted by Pheebs

Yes you're right, with regards to treatment, the only way to effectively treat a person is to categorise them using a number of medical tests (which will always have flaws) and then treat them according to that general category. Sadly this doesn't work with everyone but it's the best they can do.

I disagree. I think tests are often useless to the patient and they have been used as a way of medicine attempting to medicalise social care, and therefore acrue extra funding and authority. A mental health disorder is unlike most medical ones as it is generally diagnosed socially, whereby a person's behavior is measured against 'norms' rather than measuring the normal function of an organ. If psychiatrists have 'evidence' in the shape of made up medical questionnaires, then they can justify set treatments etc. etc.

Treatment for mental health problems should be almost entirely individual, and will therefore cost an enormous amount of money.

Note... some people with SAD who have extremely happy lifestyle during the summery months but not so during winter occasions have been successfully treated with drugs, thus correcting their chemical imbalance meaning it was namely a physical problem they had little control over. I am sure some of these people may have had some kind of placebo affect to but I have no doubt that there are a large majority who have been "cured" through drugs alone.

That's a vague claim with serious consequences - it also seems to skew slightly from your earlier comment about how you dislike drug therapy.

I with you or you with I? As said I agree without protest to a lot of what you are saying BUT am saying there's much more to it than what you insist on.

I'm not trying to simplfy and you'll also notice that I think we should withold judgement on a lot of things until there is more evidence.

You say "ask any ex depressive" as if you have asked them all and seem to know what everyones reaction will be. This, my friend, is very ignorant I doubt muchly you have had the opportunity to ask every ex depressive how they were cured and I am certain you are not omniscient (despite coming across that you feel you are!)

I've asked them all. I've also canvassed 9/10 cats.

I think you may use what you study and have learned as biblical. You should be more open minded and accept that, although you know a lot, the knowledge you have is a drop in the ocean and needs to be combined with others to make any sensible usage and judgement! I'm still debating as to whether you are or whether you're just playing a game in this thread

I think its a good idea to assume ignorance on mental health topics, simply because so many people claim answers when they do not have them. Hence why many of my comments have been questioning how it does work than actually stating anything.

Thanks for staying in this thread so long if you're in doubt. It's my charm isn't it...

ROFFLECOPTERS!

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