The Budget

[Admiral Huddy]

Strange how my wifes family live on housing benefits, family tax credits, Child allowances, etc etc etc yet have shinny new iPhones. The kids even get free bloody laptops and internet!! Yet they all smoke, they all drink.. Needy my ****.

How do you propose means testing those that really need it and those that don't? You either provide the allowances to all or not at all.

[Kitten]

You sound like the Daily Mail!

If you're going to ignore everything I've said about not comparing it with people who clearly don't need it (like your wifes family) and try to compare it with need rather than right, then it's not going to work and I honestly don't think you're going to be able to see past that. I'm sorry that your experience with your wifes family has made you feel this way about everyone on benefits (or at least that's how it seems to me?), but I can't help that, nor I can I make you see it any differently, no matter what I say. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

I guess we can consider all options except absolutely anything to do with children or families then. Because they ALL need ALL the credit and benefits they get. Including the Prime Minister & all the Bankers clearing hundreds of thousands of pounds a year. Yep, seems fair to me.

Btw, did we sort out where mine went?

[Admiral Huddy]

Originally Posted by Kitten

You sound like the Daily Mail!

That obvious

Hey look I do understand were you are coming from but my feeling is that there are those claiming they need it yet still live quite comfortable lifestyles to a point there's no incentive for them to move on and out of benefits which is why I asked how do you means test tjose that clearly need it and those that don't. Clearly, higher rate tax earners don't "need" the benefits but then neither do some lower income families.

[Kitten]

I'm not arguing with that at all Paul, nor do I have any idea how or if it could be implemented. I just think that it needs to be recognised that the benefit system is flawed at both ends of the scale, so that the people who really do need it (like Lozza's example) miss out. It needs a total overhaul, but in reality, it's not going to happen because it's probably not feasible to do it.

[TinkerBell]

I agree with kitten on this one. We need to cut down the amount of people who are receiving money when they don't NEED it. If we can do that then the taxes which we pay can go on something that is needed to help with the economy or improve NHS/schools.

Just because some people don't need the money and just can't be bothered to
work so they claim benefits doesn't mean it is acceptable for people who earn alot an don't NEED it to claim as well as that just puts the country in an even worse state of debt.

I know that there are people out there who need money for example my mom when I was a child. My mom is a single parent and has been for all my life. She has ALWAYS worked, has saved every penny she can. Didn't go on holidays all the time and she claimed child benefits which made her just manage to keep us going. Also when times were really hard she would work another job at the weekend to try and help keep us afloat. This in my opinion is when help is needed. Not when they are sitting on there arse doing nothing.

I don't see why people can't see the difference between NEED and GREED.

[Desmo]

It's something I've always thought and said as well. My brother and sister both have children and I always wondered why they could claim money just for having children when the family income should have been sufficient. Don't get me wrong, they're not on silly money but to me, they should have had enough.

[Admiral Huddy]

what are they claiming for? Tax credits?

Originally Posted by TinkerBell

I don't see why people can't see the difference between NEED and GREED.

The problem is it isn't always black and white like you've described. There are always variant situations or borderline cases which is why I ask how does one quantify and qualify "NEED"? Is "Need" just food and shelter or does it extent to a reasonable living standard. The two are very much different.

Dispite what you think, child and personal tax allowances are the only benefits we have access too so it's really a void subject. Personally I don't care that I receive noting but I care when I see it squandered in situations already mentioned. As I don't qualify for these benefits then i have as much right to voice where my tax money goes just as much as the person who pays BRT and none at all.

You have to bear in mind too that we've also become this nation of ENVY where people mistake luxury for necessity and therefore NEED. People have to start understanding not everyone can have everything and not everyone can have what the next person standing next to them has.

Anyway, I think we are barking up the same tree maybe just different sides.. All I will say is that personal tax and benefits are anything but.

[Lozza]

I think the system should be changed to vouchers rather than physical money.

Vouchers that can only be spent on stuff that is needed.. not new trainers, new mobiles, mobile credit, fags, alcohol etc..... and when people are assessed for benefits don't accept mobile costs and fags (and such like) in the budget.

The school dinner system is vouchers...
There's a milk vouchers

It would work far better and certain people wouldn't be able to sit in the pub all day and drink their benefits.

[Desmo]

Another thing I've always suggested as well, but many people thinks that it creates a them and us situation and that people using vouchers would get looked down upon. Oh well

[Knipples]

A lot of the parents/families we work with also claim the free fruit and veg vouchers, which is great cos that's all they cant be spent on, meaning the kids have a partially decent diet.

I also feel that in certain parts of society absent fathers need to be punished more for having all these kids and then not supporting them. One of the MP's today talked about taking away their benefits if they weren't supporting their children. So much damage is done to children who don't have some sort of male role model (whether it be a father or not) and we need to try and stop this thing from happening.