Any Bravia owners here? - Page 7

Toby · 10-11-2008, 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by phykell

This is all messing with my mind now

Are you sure about this? It's not the impression I've got from AV Forums.

I've also got the impression that retention is far more of an issue from some quarters of those forums.

Basically the issue seems far from clear-cut, with some claiming they have no retention issues whilst others say they can still see the results of a short gaming session for quite a while afterward.

All just a bit too worrying for me tbh.

phykell · 10-11-2008, 01:08

There's a new model out now as well, the KRP-500 I think it's called. It has a separate media box which does Freesat (Panasonic has the monopoly on Freesat built-in). Apparently, the KRP-500 is even better than the 5090 even though it's the same technology, and has the setup absolutely correct out of the box.

I admit, I was blown away by the Pio when I saw it last week but then I'm not an expert at all. The one over-riding concern I have about LCD is that only a fraction of the TV programmes are currently in HD and I don't see that changing at least for a year or two. I imagine by then that I'd be able to buy a new TV at that point which is far better than the current Pio. Who knows? Perhaps Sony will have their OLED stuff out by then

Maybe I should be buying the LCD with the PS3 in mind and possibly upgrade when at least the majority of what I watch will be in HD. I'm actually amazed that so many people have bought HD sets with the small amount of HD broadcasted material there is

divine · 10-11-2008, 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by phykell

This is all messing with my mind now

Are you sure about this? It's not the impression I've got from AV Forums.

AVForums, whilst full of very good information, also suffers from people who are massively anal retentive about their AV gear. These are the sort of people who will guage retention issues by measuring with light meters in exact amounts of ambient light etc.

It's like on OcUK in the graphics card forums, where if you ask how to upgrade from Catalyst X.10 to X.11, they'll have you have uninstalling, boot into safe mode, run Driver Cleaner, reboot into safe mode again, run it again, then install the new drivers and tell you if you don't do this your graphics card will melt.

divine · 10-11-2008, 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vertigo1

They only start doing 1080p at 50"

They do a 46", a 37" and a 32" in 1080p.

ElRazur · 10-11-2008, 08:09

Phykell, I play loads of game on the viera I have and sometime will leave it for over an hour on static images, there is yet to be retention of any kind. Iirc, the viera employs...well viera thingy that stops image from burning-in.

Also, never ever judge tv from what you see in the store, it may suffer from feed deterioration - found in places like currys, dixons etc where they attach multiple-tvs to the same feed signal.

There is a fact sheet somewhere on the net and it compares lcd v plasma in details. Plasma wins hands down. Having said that, the report was commissioned by the top plasma makers apparently. It is worth a read and helps you to decide what to go for.

I wouldn't worry too much about image burn-in tbh, things like "pixel shake" I read it is employed to counteract that and other mechanisms on plasma tv etc.

leowyatt · 10-11-2008, 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by phykell

This is all messing with my mind now

Are you sure about this? It's not the impression I've got from AV Forums.

With the AV forums as it's been said they can be very very retentive about their displays. We had our TV for a few months now and we don't leave static images on for that long if we can help it and the thing to remember is if you leave the TV on pause for hours and hours the retention that has built up WILL go you just need to use your TV for normal viewing or a static snow channel should sort it out. Some sets suffer badly from retention while others have little trouble with it. There was an LG set I was looking into when our Samsung was replaced but that suffered terrible retention even after 15 minutes of normal gameplay. Some like our Panasonic is very good and to be perfectly honest I used to be only able to make out image retention on our old Samsung was in a pitch black room with a black image on screen. It never showed up on normal watching because I was sensible about it. There is a user on AVforums whose signature has a link to a thread about an LCD TV which also suffered from image retention and burn-in so not everything is safe

Yes there isn't much TV broadcasts out at the moment but if you have Virgin like us it makes sense to have a HD TV and any games console you have MUST

have a HD TV.

Toby · 10-11-2008, 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkykell

The one over-riding concern I have about LCD is that only a fraction of the TV programmes are currently in HD and I don't see that changing at least for a year or two.

If you're referring to the inferior SD scaling on LCDs then I agree this is an issue and plasmas tend to do a much better job of this for some reason. Personally my HTPC does all this work and the screen is never fed anything other than a 1080p signal so it's not an issue but I realise it will be for most people. Must jack an aerial into the back of it sometime and see how the built-in freeview tuner compares.

Quote:

Originally Posted by divine

They do a 46", a 37" and a 32" in 1080p.

Interesting, didn't realise that, although the 46" is still twice the price of the equivalent Panasonic. I don't doubt that it's better but twice as good? Not really surprising that sales of Kuros are unimpressive.

divine · 10-11-2008, 13:00

It's like anything high end though, law of diminishing returns.

Just the same as an overclocked GTX280 isn't twice as fast as a GTX260 despite being almost twice the price.

Toby · 10-11-2008, 17:13

Fair point and everyone's cut-off is at a different point. If you have the dosh to burn then by all means go for a Kuro as they're undoubtedly the best out there, it's just that such customers are in the minority and most are look for more VFM, hence why I'm not surprised to see Pioneer's sales suffering, especially in the current climate.

phykell · 11-11-2008, 18:25

Just read this in the Pioneer manual

- sounds pretty damning to me

Usage guidelines

All phosphor-based screens (including conventional tube-type televisions) can be affected by displaying static images for a prolonged period. Plasma televisions are no exception to this rule.

After-image and permanent effects on the screen can be avoided by taking some basic precautions. By following the recommendations listed below, you can ensure longer and satisfactory results from your plasma television:

• Whenever possible, avoid frequently displaying the same image or virtually still moving pictures (e.g. closed-captioned images or video game images which have static portions).

• Do not display Teletext for a prolonged period of time.

• Avoid viewing the on-screen display for extended periods, from a decoder, DVD player, VCR and all other components.

• Do not leave the same picture freeze-framed or paused continuously over a long period of time, when using the still picture mode from a TV, VCR, DVD player or any other
component.

• Images which have both very bright areas and very dark areas side by side should not be displayed for a prolonged period of time.

•When playing a video game, the “GAME” mode setting within “AV Selection” is strongly recommended. However, please do not use this mode for long periods of time.

• After playing a game or displaying any still image, it is best to view a normal moving picture in the “WIDE” or “FULL” screen setting for more than three times the length of the previous still/moving image.

• After using the plasma television, always switch the display to “STANDBY” mode.

10-11-2008, 01:08	#62
phykell Vodka Martini Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 833	There's a new model out now as well, the KRP-500 I think it's called. It has a separate media box which does Freesat (Panasonic has the monopoly on Freesat built-in). Apparently, the KRP-500 is even better than the 5090 even though it's the same technology, and has the setup absolutely correct out of the box. I admit, I was blown away by the Pio when I saw it last week but then I'm not an expert at all. The one over-riding concern I have about LCD is that only a fraction of the TV programmes are currently in HD and I don't see that changing at least for a year or two. I imagine by then that I'd be able to buy a new TV at that point which is far better than the current Pio. Who knows? Perhaps Sony will have their OLED stuff out by then Maybe I should be buying the LCD with the PS3 in mind and possibly upgrade when at least the majority of what I watch will be in HD. I'm actually amazed that so many people have bought HD sets with the small amount of HD broadcasted material there is __________________

10-11-2008, 08:09	#65
ElRazur Long Island Iced Tea Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 214	Phykell, I play loads of game on the viera I have and sometime will leave it for over an hour on static images, there is yet to be retention of any kind. Iirc, the viera employs...well viera thingy that stops image from burning-in. Also, never ever judge tv from what you see in the store, it may suffer from feed deterioration - found in places like currys, dixons etc where they attach multiple-tvs to the same feed signal. There is a fact sheet somewhere on the net and it compares lcd v plasma in details. Plasma wins hands down. Having said that, the report was commissioned by the top plasma makers apparently. It is worth a read and helps you to decide what to go for. I wouldn't worry too much about image burn-in tbh, things like "pixel shake" I read it is employed to counteract that and other mechanisms on plasma tv etc. __________________ "Never ignore fools in large numbers." Last edited by ElRazur; 10-11-2008 at 08:23.

10-11-2008, 13:00	#68
divine Moonshine Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Southampton Posts: 3,201	It's like anything high end though, law of diminishing returns. Just the same as an overclocked GTX280 isn't twice as fast as a GTX260 despite being almost twice the price. __________________

10-11-2008, 17:13	#69
Toby Absinthe Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,023	Fair point and everyone's cut-off is at a different point. If you have the dosh to burn then by all means go for a Kuro as they're undoubtedly the best out there, it's just that such customers are in the minority and most are look for more VFM, hence why I'm not surprised to see Pioneer's sales suffering, especially in the current climate. __________________

11-11-2008, 18:25	#70
phykell Vodka Martini Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 833	Just read this in the Pioneer manual - sounds pretty damning to me Usage guidelines All phosphor-based screens (including conventional tube-type televisions) can be affected by displaying static images for a prolonged period. Plasma televisions are no exception to this rule. After-image and permanent effects on the screen can be avoided by taking some basic precautions. By following the recommendations listed below, you can ensure longer and satisfactory results from your plasma television: • Whenever possible, avoid frequently displaying the same image or virtually still moving pictures (e.g. closed-captioned images or video game images which have static portions). • Do not display Teletext for a prolonged period of time. • Avoid viewing the on-screen display for extended periods, from a decoder, DVD player, VCR and all other components. • Do not leave the same picture freeze-framed or paused continuously over a long period of time, when using the still picture mode from a TV, VCR, DVD player or any other component. • Images which have both very bright areas and very dark areas side by side should not be displayed for a prolonged period of time. •When playing a video game, the “GAME” mode setting within “AV Selection” is strongly recommended. However, please do not use this mode for long periods of time. • After playing a game or displaying any still image, it is best to view a normal moving picture in the “WIDE” or “FULL” screen setting for more than three times the length of the previous still/moving image. • After using the plasma television, always switch the display to “STANDBY” mode. __________________