Poor Jade Goody!!

[Lomster]

what age group is the vacination for? I assume just young teen girls.

[iCraig]

Originally Posted by A Place Of Light

I'm fairly non-plus about her to be honest.....and certainly not what anyone could call a fan. People are free to form and hold any opinion. The difference is that my opinion was formed knowing that I have nowhere near enough information on the girl to form an opinion that can pretend to be anything other than partially accurate. The "Haters" are oh-so-sure that their opinion is de facto.

People judge by actions, simple as that. I never met Mr Hitler but I certainly judge him by his actions. By extension Jade's the same to me. I respond to, and judge by, her actions. I don't care, nor does anybody else, if I'm 100% correct in that or not, it's simply an opinion of a person.

Originally Posted by A Place Of Light

No I couldn't, but mainstream TV exists purely to achieve ratings. Merit doesn't come into it. As long as there's demand for certain types of show/publications there will be demand
So? What's that got to do with anything, unless you're suggesting those who have had a tough time are exempt from criticism?

It's an interesting debate (probably one for another thread) but is it really and truly demand? Do the masses keep calling up ITV and BBC asking for more Pop Factor? Or do they do it anyway? And people just watch it? How much of the "demand" is the TV mindless simply watching it, because it's *on* if you know what I mean?

Originally Posted by A Place Of Light

The flaws that certain people exhibit by showing their vitriolic, borderline hatred, for someone that they have never met.

Well I can't speak for others' feelings of her, but if I truly hated her, I'd be happy she was about to die. On the contary, I'm not. It's a shame for her, and her family. You just don't wish that sort of unhappyness on anybody.

[Lomster]

Cheers Kitten

[A Place of Light]

Originally Posted by iCraig

People judge by actions, simple as that. I never met Mr Hitler but I certainly judge him by his actions. By extension Jade's the same to me. I respond to, and judge by, her actions. I don't care, nor does anybody else, if I'm 100% correct in that or not, it's simply an opinion of a person.

The actions of Mr.Hitler are extremely well detailed and documented. Those of Miss Goody are not. You, me and the guy who cleans my drains have only what we've been force fed by our ever-so-moral media to go on in order to form an opinion. Even TV footage can be edited in such a way that the original point and/or context has been substantially changed.


It's an interesting debate (probably one for another thread) but is it really and truly demand? Do the masses keep calling up ITV and BBC asking for more Pop Factor? Or do they do it anyway? And people just watch it? How much of the "demand" is the TV mindless simply watching it, because it's *on* if you know what I mean?

Perhaps apathy could explain your opinion above, but the fact that these shows are based on viewers picking up the phone and voting suggests you're wrong. Just because you or I are not interested in the celebrity culture we find ourselves embroiled in, doesn't change the fact that the majority of the viewing/reading public are. Look at Heat magazine and the number of clone publications it spawned for example. I couldn't give a toss, but sadly I'm in a minority on this one.


Well I can't speak for others' feelings of her, but if I truly hated her, I'd be happy she was about to die. On the contary, I'm not. It's a shame for her, and her family. You just don't wish that sort of unhappyness on anybody.

It's a shame, a real shame IMHO. It's become fashionable to celeb-bash in recent years. It's a way for some to become anti-establishment again and Jade (being brash, coarse and from the shallow end of the intellectual gene pool) seems to attract more hatred than most. Hell, some jerk even started up a website inviting people to predict when she's going to die. She's done and said some stupid things, nobody can deny that, but I can add that I've done and said worse at one time or another. The difference is that I didn't have six million viewers eavesdropping on the occasions in question. She's being criticised for going public about her illness at the moment, when all she's doing is trying to earn as much as she can for her childrens futures and also to raise awareness about her condition. The fact that smear tests have increased by around 20% since she made her diagnosis public shows that the "Kylie effect" has come into play.....much as it did with Miss Minogue when breast cancer screenings increased by a similar amount.
In effect, Jade will have indirectly saved some lives as there will be some women who will have been tested just because they heard about Jades plight. Some of those women will "catch" the disease in time to be treated successfully so ultimately Jades decision to go public will have helped.
Now are you telling me that you couldn't put to one side everything that she's done or said to offend you and think something positive about her because of this.....because if you can't then I suppose you're saying that it's impossible for her to redeem herself in your eyes, and IMHO it's a real shame that you could be so steadfast in your opinion.

^
This.

[Del Lardo]

Originally Posted by A Place of Light

Just because you or I are not interested in the celebrity culture we find ourselves embroiled in, doesn't change the fact that the majority of the viewing/reading public are.

I think that the majority or the viewing/reading public couldn't give a flying **** about celebrity culture, it's just that the minority who do is big enough to make it a market worth pandering to.

[iCraig]

Originally Posted by A Place Of Light

The actions of Mr.Hitler are extremely well detailed and documented. Those of Miss Goody are not. You, me and the guy who cleans my drains have only what we've been force fed by our ever-so-moral media to go on in order to form an opinion. Even TV footage can be edited in such a way that the original point and/or context has been substantially changed.

And why is that so one-sided? Why are you allowed to form your opinion (a relatively neutral one) but others can't form a negative one? If your point is that you can't form anything but a neutral opinion due to the nature of how you percieve her, I wonder if you'd be so quick to dismiss positive opinions of her? The same rules apply surely? How can someone know her well enough to say she's wonderful and lovely? Funnily enough I don't see you going after those people.

Originally Posted by A Place Of Light

Perhaps apathy could explain your opinion above, but the fact that these shows are based on viewers picking up the phone and voting suggests you're wrong. Just because you or I are not interested in the celebrity culture we find ourselves embroiled in, doesn't change the fact that the majority of the viewing/reading public are. Look at Heat magazine and the number of clone publications it spawned for example. I couldn't give a toss, but sadly I'm in a minority on this one.

Really? Compare the number of voters of a show to the actual population. Also consider how many of those vote more than once. I'd say you weren't in the minority at all, just that producers/networks aren't stupid and will keep thinking up Reality TV shows to keep more money coming in. Documentaries and general entertainment don't make the money like a good reality show does.

Originally Posted by A Place Of Light

It's a shame, a real shame IMHO. It's become fashionable to celeb-bash in recent years. It's a way for some to become anti-establishment again and Jade (being brash, coarse and from the shallow end of the intellectual gene pool) seems to attract more hatred than most.

But that's just suggesting that some people dislike shallow money-hungry celebrities. All wanting seven bites of the cherry each. And Jade, being Jade is top of the pile when it comes to that sort of thing, and is naturally hated the most. Well, no surprise really.

I'm not sure what you're fighting against. People have opinions of each other, always have, always will. Celebrities included, and they'll naturally get more than their fair share because of being in the spotlight all the time. It's celebrities like Jade that annoy people, who always seem to be announcing a drama to make sure their agent's phone keeps ringing. This is all of course aside from her cancer, I'm not for one minute suggesting she became cancerous to deliberately get media attention, but she's hardly been the private type. Always fighting to keep on the podium. Just like Britney Spears and her shaven head and nervous breakdown number 24 and Paris Hilton with whatever drama saga she's going through at the moment. It annoys people. It annoys people to have it brandished in their face. Newspapers, magazines, radio, television, the internet. You can't escape from them. You can limit your exposure to celebrity culture but ultimately you still have to wade through it all, and that simply gets on people's nerves. Including mine.

Originally Posted by A Place Of Light

Hell, some jerk even started up a website inviting people to predict when she's going to die. She's done and said some stupid things, nobody can deny that, but I can add that I've done and said worse at one time or another. The difference is that I didn't have six million viewers eavesdropping on the occasions in question. She's being criticised for going public about her illness at the moment, when all she's doing is trying to earn as much as she can for her childrens futures and also to raise awareness about her condition. The fact that smear tests have increased by around 20% since she made her diagnosis public shows that the "Kylie effect" has come into play.....much as it did with Miss Minogue when breast cancer screenings increased by a similar amount.
In effect, Jade will have indirectly saved some lives as there will be some women who will have been tested just because they heard about Jades plight. Some of those women will "catch" the disease in time to be treated successfully so ultimately Jades decision to go public will have helped.

You didn't invite 6 million viewers to eavesdrop either. Jade isn't guilty of this as far as I'm aware but many celebrities similar to her are very hypocritical when it comes to the media attention. Loving it one minute when it's getting them noticed and in the best LA clubs, but all defensive and wanting the press to leave them alone the next. Sure, book a press tent on your front lawn when you think money is to be made, but call for media restriction when there isn't. Jade voluntarily went into the media spotlight, and hasn't stepped out of it properly since, and with that she'll accept, or should accept, both good and bad press. You can't cherry pick your audience and only give voices to those who like her. You take the bad with the good and get on with it. As far as her cancer goes, I haven't really got an opinion on it more than that it's a shame for her and her children. Terminal cancer at that age is unfair and must be extremely frustrating and quite simply terrifying. I would struggle to agree with someone who says she deserves it, or we shouldn't feel sorry for her. I won't deny that she's a major player in the whole celebrity culture that has a stranglehold on our entertainment industry. I simply dislike her exploitation. The fact every part of her is for sale, every word, every moment can go to the highest bidder. Which of course doesn't surprise me that she's even contemplating making her death into a reality Tv event. I dislike all of that, even if it's making her children money. If it were me I'd prefer to not sell that last bit of dignity and privacy, and let my family keep hold of that. The press and their money can go ****themselves. But, it's not me. It's her and her money, just that I simply don't agree with what she does. I think I'm entitled to that opinion to be honest.

Originally Posted by A Place Of Light

Now are you telling me that you couldn't put to one side everything that she's done or said to offend you and think something positive about her because of this.....because if you can't then I suppose you're saying that it's impossible for her to redeem herself in your eyes, and IMHO it's a real shame that you could be so steadfast in your opinion.

I'm not expecting anything from her. She doesn't need to redeem anything or prove anything to me. She's got cancer and it sucks and I do genuinely feel sorry for her. Her media exploitation is simply what I don't agree with. Yes it's raised awareness, but she's been milking the papers and getting her face plastered anywhere and everywhere for years now. All she's doing is diverting the cash to her children this time. I can understand why she's doing it in a way, but I think a line should be drawn on how far you sell yourself and now by extension with this cancer story, your family. Unfortunately if she does indeed follow up her idea of televising her death, it to me shows nothing is sacred, that even that, is for sale. Gervais is right when he mused that the Victorian Freak Show never went away. It saddens me to see, how celebrities will do this sort of thing. There's not a single person to blame, everybody has played their part. Every viewer of I'm A Celebrity, and Big Brother has played their part in providing the light in which so many celebrities swarm to like moths. Jade Goody is simply one of the biggest moths.

[A Place of Light]

Originally Posted by Del Lardo

I think that the majority or the viewing/reading public couldn't give a flying **** about celebrity culture, it's just that the minority who do is big enough to make it a market worth pandering to.

I'm not so sure.
The reality TV shows grab the lions share of the viewing figures for example, the newspapers are full of stories that are also "celeb" based....and their audience is huge.

[A Place of Light]

Originally Posted by iCraig

And why is that so one-sided? Why are you allowed to form your opinion (a relatively neutral one) but others can't form a negative one? If your point is that you can't form anything but a neutral opinion due to the nature of how you percieve her, I wonder if you'd be so quick to dismiss positive opinions of her? The same rules apply surely? How can someone know her well enough to say she's wonderful and lovely? Funnily enough I don't see you going after those people.

Because as always the haters make the most noise.
You are more than savvy enough to know that our tabloid media is always one-sided to a degree.
My opinion is also based on what I've seen in the media.
Where mine differs is I know that I don't have the whole picture or anywhere near it, therefore I know my opinion cannot be taken as accurate.

Really? Compare the number of voters of a show to the actual population. Also consider how many of those vote more than once. I'd say you weren't in the minority at all, just that producers/networks aren't stupid and will keep thinking up Reality TV shows to keep more money coming in. Documentaries and general entertainment don't make the money like a good reality show does.

No matter what the phone vote is about it's always many times less than the audience, that's a given. Even the ratings are calculated in a similar way. One thing the networks are good at is judging how many people are watching. If a show is still being shown, it's got a good audience regardless of how crap the show itself is.

But that's just suggesting that some people dislike shallow money-hungry celebrities. All wanting seven bites of the cherry each. And Jade, being Jade is top of the pile when it comes to that sort of thing, and is naturally hated the most. Well, no surprise really.

Except it doesn't really explain how Jade was quite a popular girl before the Shilpa Shetty incident

I'm not sure what you're fighting against. People have opinions of each other, always have, always will. Celebrities included, and they'll naturally get more than their fair share because of being in the spotlight all the time. It's celebrities like Jade that annoy people, who always seem to be announcing a drama to make sure their agent's phone keeps ringing. This is all of course aside from her cancer, I'm not for one minute suggesting she became cancerous to deliberately get media attention, but she's hardly been the private type. Always fighting to keep on the podium. Just like Britney Spears and her shaven head and nervous breakdown number 24 and Paris Hilton with whatever drama saga she's going through at the moment. It annoys people. It annoys people to have it brandished in their face. Newspapers, magazines, radio, television, the internet. You can't escape from them. You can limit your exposure to celebrity culture but ultimately you still have to wade through it all, and that simply gets on people's nerves. Including mine.

Until a huge section of the public becomes tired of it, then this is something we have to live with


You didn't invite 6 million viewers to eavesdrop either. Jade isn't guilty of this as far as I'm aware but many celebrities similar to her are very hypocritical when it comes to the media attention. Loving it one minute when it's getting them noticed and in the best LA clubs, but all defensive and wanting the press to leave them alone the next. Sure, book a press tent on your front lawn when you think money is to be made, but call for media restriction when there isn't. Jade voluntarily went into the media spotlight, and hasn't stepped out of it properly since, and with that she'll accept, or should accept, both good and bad press. You can't cherry pick your audience and only give voices to those who like her. You take the bad with the good and get on with it. As far as her cancer goes, I haven't really got an opinion on it more than that it's a shame for her and her children. Terminal cancer at that age is unfair and must be extremely frustrating and quite simply terrifying. I would struggle to agree with someone who says she deserves it, or we shouldn't feel sorry for her. I won't deny that she's a major player in the whole celebrity culture that has a stranglehold on our entertainment industry. I simply dislike her exploitation. The fact every part of her is for sale, every word, every moment can go to the highest bidder. Which of course doesn't surprise me that she's even contemplating making her death into a reality Tv event. I dislike all of that, even if it's making her children money. If it were me I'd prefer to not sell that last bit of dignity and privacy, and let my family keep hold of that. The press and their money can go ****themselves. But, it's not me. It's her and her money, just that I simply don't agree with what she does. I think I'm entitled to that opinion to be honest.

Every part of her may be for sale, but it's the fault of the public that anyone wants to buy it.....and herein lies the paradox. The celeb culture is just the symptom.....it's the great British public that are the diesease.


I'm not expecting anything from her. She doesn't need to redeem anything or prove anything to me. She's got cancer and it sucks and I do genuinely feel sorry for her. Her media exploitation is simply what I don't agree with. Yes it's raised awareness, but she's been milking the papers and getting her face plastered anywhere and everywhere for years now. All she's doing is diverting the cash to her children this time. I can understand why she's doing it in a way, but I think a line should be drawn on how far you sell yourself and now by extension with this cancer story, your family. Unfortunately if she does indeed follow up her idea of televising her death, it to me shows nothing is sacred, that even that, is for sale. Gervais is right when he mused that the Victorian Freak Show never went away. It saddens me to see, how celebrities will do this sort of thing. There's not a single person to blame, everybody has played their part. Every viewer of I'm A Celebrity, and Big Brother has played their part in providing the light in which so many celebrities swarm to like moths. Jade Goody is simply one of the biggest moths.

Do you think it's wrong for her to earn as mch as she can to secure the best start in life for her children?

^
This.

[iCraig]

Originally Posted by A Place Of Light

Because as always the haters make the most noise.
You are more than savvy enough to know that our tabloid media is always one-sided to a degree.
My opinion is also based on what I've seen in the media.
Where mine differs is I know that I don't have the whole picture or anywhere near it, therefore I know my opinion cannot be taken as accurate.

Why does an opinion need to be accurate for it be allowed? The very nature of opinion itself means it's subjective.

Originally Posted by A Place Of Light

No matter what the phone vote is about it's always many times less than the audience, that's a given. Even the ratings are calculated in a similar way. One thing the networks are good at is judging how many people are watching. If a show is still being shown, it's got a good audience regardless of how crap the show itself is.

I agree with that. It's all about the ratings, and the cultural debate of do high ratings equal a good show? How accurate are ratings? What percentage of them are genuinely interested watchers, and what percentage watch from habit/lack of anything else?

Originally Posted by A Place Of Light

Except it doesn't really explain how Jade was quite a popular girl before the Shilpa Shetty incident

Because you take the good with the bad. The media will promote whatever angle they think will sell the most papers. If she's said a racist remark, brandish headlines of RACIST JADE. If she's got a terminal illness it's BRAVE JADE.

Originally Posted by A Place Of Light

Until a huge section of the public becomes tired of it, then this is something we have to live with.

Unfortunately so.

Originally Posted by A Place Of Light

Every part of her may be for sale, but it's the fault of the public that anyone wants to buy it.....and herein lies the paradox. The celeb culture is just the symptom.....it's the great British public that are the diesease.

I think the celebs are to blame as well to be honest. Some of them are known to call their publicist first thing every morning wanting to know where they are in each tabloid. Fame used to be the by-product of achievement and recognition in a field. Now it's almost like some kind of meta social status. You have people who are celebrities, just because they're celebrities if you know what I mean. Fame by association propels them into the spotlight, usually the wife of some famous footballer. They pout about, making sure they visit the clubs the most press are outside. If they think the spotlight is fading it's time to cook up some crap to get noticed again. Usually doing an autobiography, or releasing their own perfume.

Originally Posted by A Place Of Light

Do you think it's wrong for her to earn as mch as she can to secure the best start in life for her children?

No but I don't think it's the most important thing in the world right now. I can understand putting money away, but the line needs to be drawn a little in my opinion. It's just being a complete media whore. Would her children want that? To look back in 10 years and see how Mum completely sold herself out in order to pay for the Playstation 4 in the corner? Like I said before, do the interviews, take the cash and run. Then spend the rest of your time with your children, sod the media. Again, like I said, merely my opinion.

[phykell]

Originally Posted by A Place of Light

Do you think it's wrong for her to earn as much as she can to secure the best start in life for her children?

Jade? Altruism? Really?