Tyres

volospian · 01-11-2011, 14:50

Just changed the tyres on the Jagwar. Went from Falken FK452 to Vredstein Ultrac Sessanta.

I had the same Falkens on the Cerbera (albeit a different size) and they were fantastic, but with the different vehicle characterstics of the Jag they struggled. The Cerb was light and made it's power up in the rev range, while the Jag is a heavy beast and dumps huge amounts of torque to the rears from the off.

On the Cerb the Falkens rarely span unless the road was very wet and you were seriously pushing on, but on the Jag they'd only need a hint of damp before they lit up like a pair of catherine wheels. Trying to nip out of a junction in the wet was a nightmare as the wheels would spin and the TC would come down like a hammer, cutting all the power, then it would allow it back in a big lump, which would spin the wheels and send the TC mad again, resulting in kangarooing wildly out of the junction... However, I will say this in their defense, they were extremely predictable when they broke away. I knew exactly how much throttle to put down on a corner if I want the back to slide out.

OK, so with the TC off it made for lots of tail happy motoring, but sometimes, when it's dark and raining and you just want to get home, it was a pita.

Anyway... I had the Vreds put on this morning, so they are not bedded in yet and pulling off from the garage forecourt sent the TC light flickering so I expected them to perform similar to the Falkens, however, when I got onto a straight piece of road (William Nadin Way in Swad, for those who know the area) I decided to try them out properly.

I switched the 'box into sport mode (it has the CATS system, so it also stiffens the dampers and sharpens the throttle response), switched the TC off and booted it.

Not even a slight slip. I was amazed. They are working on construction down there at the moment and the road is brown with muck from the trucks, it had been raining earlier and the road was shiney and brown and yet the Vreds stuck like glue. I must say, I am seriously impressed with their directional grip... I just wonder how predictable they will be at breakaway... I think I'll have to find somewhere quiet and damp on the way home and see...

Jonny69 · 01-11-2011, 22:36

Sounds about right. A lot of people assume that a 'good' tyre is good on all cars. Not true. In fact, not even close. When I was running Yokohama A510's on my Anglia they used to get slated by a lot of people. Really soft sidewall that people used to moan about because the weight of the car would roll around on them. But yet on a light car like a Mini or Anglia they were super nimble and stuck to the road like glue in both wet and dry.

Zirax · 01-11-2011, 22:36

Interesting, I had the Falkens on the Omega and loved them. The speed that the barge could carry was just plain bonkers at times. It was fairly sedate until you crossed 4k rpm and then the howl was immense

To get it to slide you really had to be pushing hard and as you say it was always predictable.

I may try the Vreds as the mondeo is due a new set of boots soon. This is another car that dumps stupid amounts of torque at really low revs.

Desmo · 01-11-2011, 23:10

Believe it or not, I've just had some 452's stuck on mine this morning. Couldn't wait to get rid of the poxy run flats and whilst I've not had a decent run on them yet, I'm already far happier with the general ride

volospian · 02-11-2011, 11:15

Don't get me wrong, I was not unhappy with the 452's per se, just that they couldn't handle the torque in the wet, especially on bends.

As jonny says, tyres really are car dependant and what works well on one may not work on another. The Jag, for instance, pushes out ~326lb/ft from just 1,500 rpm and weighs more than a small continent, while the Cerb weighs not a lot and doesn't hit those torque figures until around 3,000 rpm. Also, the Jag throttle travel is short and even 10mm of travel can make a huge difference to the output, while the Cerb had a throttle with a travel distance like a clutch pedal, you needed to lift your foot off the floor and plant it if you wanted WOT. You could shift it 6 inches and only reach 1/4 throttle.

The Falkens were amazing on the cerb, the grip was controlable in all weathers and very predictable when they did start to slide, which made driving it a pleasure. On the Jag, in the damp, it's a lot like driving on grease.

Desmo · 12-11-2011, 11:40

Having had these 452's for a week or two now I have to say I'm really pleased with them. No more crashing an bashing around any more...it's great

Zirax · 13-11-2011, 01:54

They aren't bad in snow / ice either. In the Omega with some weight shoved in the boot it was fine even with thick solid ice on the road.

divine · 13-11-2011, 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zirax

They aren't bad in snow / ice either. In the Omega with some weight shoved in the boot it was fine even with thick solid ice on the road.

Now see that's odd, as from what i've seen they have a reputation of being horrendously bad in snow.

Jonny69 · 13-11-2011, 12:09

Probably in a different car...

volospian · 14-11-2011, 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonny69

Probably in a different car...

Indeed, on the Jag they were worse than useless. I only needed a dusting of snow and the car became undrivable. There's a short hill to my house and in last years snow I was about the only person who couldn't get up the hill.

01-11-2011, 14:50	#1
volospian Vodka Martini Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 786	Tyres Just changed the tyres on the Jagwar. Went from Falken FK452 to Vredstein Ultrac Sessanta. I had the same Falkens on the Cerbera (albeit a different size) and they were fantastic, but with the different vehicle characterstics of the Jag they struggled. The Cerb was light and made it's power up in the rev range, while the Jag is a heavy beast and dumps huge amounts of torque to the rears from the off. On the Cerb the Falkens rarely span unless the road was very wet and you were seriously pushing on, but on the Jag they'd only need a hint of damp before they lit up like a pair of catherine wheels. Trying to nip out of a junction in the wet was a nightmare as the wheels would spin and the TC would come down like a hammer, cutting all the power, then it would allow it back in a big lump, which would spin the wheels and send the TC mad again, resulting in kangarooing wildly out of the junction... However, I will say this in their defense, they were extremely predictable when they broke away. I knew exactly how much throttle to put down on a corner if I want the back to slide out. OK, so with the TC off it made for lots of tail happy motoring, but sometimes, when it's dark and raining and you just want to get home, it was a pita. Anyway... I had the Vreds put on this morning, so they are not bedded in yet and pulling off from the garage forecourt sent the TC light flickering so I expected them to perform similar to the Falkens, however, when I got onto a straight piece of road (William Nadin Way in Swad, for those who know the area) I decided to try them out properly. I switched the 'box into sport mode (it has the CATS system, so it also stiffens the dampers and sharpens the throttle response), switched the TC off and booted it. Not even a slight slip. I was amazed. They are working on construction down there at the moment and the road is brown with muck from the trucks, it had been raining earlier and the road was shiney and brown and yet the Vreds stuck like glue. I must say, I am seriously impressed with their directional grip... I just wonder how predictable they will be at breakaway... I think I'll have to find somewhere quiet and damp on the way home and see...

01-11-2011, 22:36	#2
Jonny69 Noob Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Socialist Republik of Kent Posts: 5,032	Sounds about right. A lot of people assume that a 'good' tyre is good on all cars. Not true. In fact, not even close. When I was running Yokohama A510's on my Anglia they used to get slated by a lot of people. Really soft sidewall that people used to moan about because the weight of the car would roll around on them. But yet on a light car like a Mini or Anglia they were super nimble and stuck to the road like glue in both wet and dry. __________________

01-11-2011, 23:10	#4
Desmo The Last Airbender Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Pigmopad Posts: 11,915	Believe it or not, I've just had some 452's stuck on mine this morning. Couldn't wait to get rid of the poxy run flats and whilst I've not had a decent run on them yet, I'm already far happier with the general ride __________________

12-11-2011, 11:40	#6
Desmo The Last Airbender Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Pigmopad Posts: 11,915	Having had these 452's for a week or two now I have to say I'm really pleased with them. No more crashing an bashing around any more...it's great __________________

13-11-2011, 12:09	#9
Jonny69 Noob Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Socialist Republik of Kent Posts: 5,032	Probably in a different car... __________________

01-11-2011, 22:36	#3
Zirax Goes up to 11! Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,577	Interesting, I had the Falkens on the Omega and loved them. The speed that the barge could carry was just plain bonkers at times. It was fairly sedate until you crossed 4k rpm and then the howl was immense To get it to slide you really had to be pushing hard and as you say it was always predictable. I may try the Vreds as the mondeo is due a new set of boots soon. This is another car that dumps stupid amounts of torque at really low revs.

02-11-2011, 11:15	#5
volospian Vodka Martini Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 786	Don't get me wrong, I was not unhappy with the 452's per se, just that they couldn't handle the torque in the wet, especially on bends. As jonny says, tyres really are car dependant and what works well on one may not work on another. The Jag, for instance, pushes out ~326lb/ft from just 1,500 rpm and weighs more than a small continent, while the Cerb weighs not a lot and doesn't hit those torque figures until around 3,000 rpm. Also, the Jag throttle travel is short and even 10mm of travel can make a huge difference to the output, while the Cerb had a throttle with a travel distance like a clutch pedal, you needed to lift your foot off the floor and plant it if you wanted WOT. You could shift it 6 inches and only reach 1/4 throttle. The Falkens were amazing on the cerb, the grip was controlable in all weathers and very predictable when they did start to slide, which made driving it a pleasure. On the Jag, in the damp, it's a lot like driving on grease.

13-11-2011, 01:54	#7
Zirax Goes up to 11! Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,577	They aren't bad in snow / ice either. In the Omega with some weight shoved in the boot it was fine even with thick solid ice on the road.