Do MPs even live on this planet?

Pebs · 12-05-2008, 20:58

Jesus H!!! The education minister is on Panorama at the moment discussing SATS, the tests that children undergo in primary school aged 7 and 11 and again when they are 14.

Sophie is doing them this week. She is stressed, not sleeping, dreading school, distracted and under the most ridiculous pressure and has been since about March. I had a letter from school saying that she must have early nights (7pm was 'suggested') and good breakfasts and that she can't go off school sick this week. All this so that the school can find its place in the league tables. It makes me so bloody angry!!!! They're at primary school ffs! The sodding minister just said 'life is stressful, it's good for the kids to learn that'. WTF?!?!? They have a LIFETIME of stress looming, what is this guy on?!

I've told Sophie time and time and time again that she mustn't get stressed about it, I don't care how she does on them and explained what they are guaging but to no avail, she seems to be being bombarded from the minute she gets into school.

And while I'm ranting about primary schools....Daisy gets homework. What is THAT all about?! She's had it since they started school, they all get it and the older two get quite a lot. AND! There was a select little group picked to be hothoused after school to pass their 11 plus this year. Surely I can't be the only person that thinks this is just insanity!? If a child has to be coached to get into a grammar school they are going to struggle, and in an academic environment that's no fun at all, I've seen it. I know hindsight can be slightly rose-tinted but the 11plus in my day was a total non event, we went into the hall to do it, no notice, no pressure and our parents were told if we had passed. Ofsted now actually send letters TO THE KIDS telling them they are underperforming/below average etc based on the schools SATS results

What has happened to children being able to be children? Going out to play after school rather than doing mounds of homework? Enjoying primary school rather than being put under more and more pressure to perform for the school?

Livid from Essex.

Dee · 12-05-2008, 21:19

Bugger Karyn, I can remember getting stressed doing my GCSE's, but it would seem I wasnt under as much pressure as your kids, thats just bloody awful

Garp · 12-05-2008, 21:46

Not long after I started working at the 6th form college we saw the start of the AS/A2 thing, where students are taking real exams for qualifications both years (AS first year, A2 second) of their studies at the college. The poor students that came in at the start of the year were the unluckiest year they'd managed (through government stupidity) to be collared for every new exam and testing. One of the teachers worked out they'd had 'pressured' exams every single year from year 7 onwards, right up until they sat their A2s, then they'd hit Uni and have all the end of year exams each year there too.

What is utterly moronic about the whole thing is that exams are incredibly disruptive to learning. Teachers are having to cram the same syllabus in to a shorter period of time so that they have enough time to do revision stuff with their students before the exam hits. The college teachers were figuring on the AS/A2 split wasting 2 months of real teaching time and probably 3 1/2 months of effective teaching time once you deal with the disruption and productivity changes, with students having to change from being on a learning to a revising mindset, and back again. PLUS the exams come in May/June leaving not even a complete final term to really allow them to get their teeth into a subject.

It's the same as so many of the utterly stupid things the government does. Too much bureaucracy and red tape. After all, they have to have all these statistics to tell us how well the schools are doing, right? How else would the population know that they're screwing up education if there weren't the statistics to support it.

jmc41 · 12-05-2008, 22:04

It's all going mad, I didn't get homework until year 6 and that was only for a major project, mainly started and secondary school. I skipped out on year 6 sats, took the year 9 ones but didn't really care about them as that was a long long time ago.

Just missed out of the AS/A2 thing, but from what I saw they cram most of the easy stuff into the first year leaving a huge amount of complex stuff for the second year so even if you get through the AS course and do okay there is worse to come rather than spending two years properly learning it all and only having to worry about mocks in the middle.

Mark · 12-05-2008, 22:10

I also remember the 11plus and being totally un-stressed about it all. Mind you, I didn't tend to get that stressed out by exams anyway (probably why I did so badly at A levels - Uni didn't count as I was a dirty swot there).

It's certainly a shame that the whole school mentality now seems to revolve around exams and tests, and how pupils 'must' do well - consequences be damned, but I guess that was an inevitable result of the whole league tables thing.

As for the original question, I have no idea where most politicians (not just MPs) originate from and live, but in a lot of cases it doesn't seem to bear any relationship to what the rest of us experience.

Dee · 12-05-2008, 22:18

Who can honestly say their exam results (as in SAT's and GCSE's) have helped them get where they are now? Not a single person I know has thanked their exams results for getting them a job, its almost like they never exisited

Pebs · 12-05-2008, 22:23

I have to say my lack of quals has hindered me once, but then I did stuff up my GCSEs quite spectacularly due to naughtiness. I was so bad I had to do my exams in the stationary cupboard lol! In hindsight though I dont really think good results would have changed my path at all.

Mark · 12-05-2008, 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betty

Who can honestly say their exam results (as in SAT's and GCSE's) have helped them get where they are now? Not a single person I know has thanked their exams results for getting them a job, its almost like they never exisited

I'll be an exception to your rule then. I got my Uni placement as a result of good 1st/2nd year Uni results, and I got my current job as a direct result of my Uni placement (same employer). Admittedly, whether a worse finals result would have had any adverse affect, I don't know (I doubt it, within reason).

jmc41 · 13-05-2008, 06:44

My SATs did nothing as far as I can tell, but my good GCSE results probably helped get me into Uni and my current job due to atrocious A-levels and a "not quite as good as I'd have liked" degree result.

Dymetrie · 13-05-2008, 07:40

I've been keeping an eye on this over the past few days (can pretty much pick up BBC1 and Dave on freeview... thank SMEG for Dave!) and it's left me somewhat flaberghasted.

It's a sorry state of affairs that the Government feels the need to stress children out just so that they can categorise the abilities of schools and teachers.

The main problem with it is that exams are rubbish. They don't show which pupils are most capable at a subject, they show which pupils are most capable at remembering loads of stuff which they'll have forgotten again after a few weeks and will never use again. Coursework and projects are much better indicators and also create much less stress.

Pretty much the only subject path I followed in my educational career which assists me in my current professional career is English. And even that I attribute more to being well read outside of school...

12-05-2008, 20:58	#1
Pebs Easymouth Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 6,716	Do MPs even live on this planet? Jesus H!!! The education minister is on Panorama at the moment discussing SATS, the tests that children undergo in primary school aged 7 and 11 and again when they are 14. Sophie is doing them this week. She is stressed, not sleeping, dreading school, distracted and under the most ridiculous pressure and has been since about March. I had a letter from school saying that she must have early nights (7pm was 'suggested') and good breakfasts and that she can't go off school sick this week. All this so that the school can find its place in the league tables. It makes me so bloody angry!!!! They're at primary school ffs! The sodding minister just said 'life is stressful, it's good for the kids to learn that'. WTF?!?!? They have a LIFETIME of stress looming, what is this guy on?! I've told Sophie time and time and time again that she mustn't get stressed about it, I don't care how she does on them and explained what they are guaging but to no avail, she seems to be being bombarded from the minute she gets into school. And while I'm ranting about primary schools....Daisy gets homework. What is THAT all about?! She's had it since they started school, they all get it and the older two get quite a lot. AND! There was a select little group picked to be hothoused after school to pass their 11 plus this year. Surely I can't be the only person that thinks this is just insanity!? If a child has to be coached to get into a grammar school they are going to struggle, and in an academic environment that's no fun at all, I've seen it. I know hindsight can be slightly rose-tinted but the 11plus in my day was a total non event, we went into the hall to do it, no notice, no pressure and our parents were told if we had passed. Ofsted now actually send letters TO THE KIDS telling them they are underperforming/below average etc based on the schools SATS results What has happened to children being able to be children? Going out to play after school rather than doing mounds of homework? Enjoying primary school rather than being put under more and more pressure to perform for the school? Livid from Essex. __________________ ...faster you naughty little monkey! Running through hell, heaven can wait!

12-05-2008, 21:46	#3
Garp Preparing more tumbleweed Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Hawaii Posts: 6,038	Not long after I started working at the 6th form college we saw the start of the AS/A2 thing, where students are taking real exams for qualifications both years (AS first year, A2 second) of their studies at the college. The poor students that came in at the start of the year were the unluckiest year they'd managed (through government stupidity) to be collared for every new exam and testing. One of the teachers worked out they'd had 'pressured' exams every single year from year 7 onwards, right up until they sat their A2s, then they'd hit Uni and have all the end of year exams each year there too. What is utterly moronic about the whole thing is that exams are incredibly disruptive to learning. Teachers are having to cram the same syllabus in to a shorter period of time so that they have enough time to do revision stuff with their students before the exam hits. The college teachers were figuring on the AS/A2 split wasting 2 months of real teaching time and probably 3 1/2 months of effective teaching time once you deal with the disruption and productivity changes, with students having to change from being on a learning to a revising mindset, and back again. PLUS the exams come in May/June leaving not even a complete final term to really allow them to get their teeth into a subject. It's the same as so many of the utterly stupid things the government does. Too much bureaucracy and red tape. After all, they have to have all these statistics to tell us how well the schools are doing, right? How else would the population know that they're screwing up education if there weren't the statistics to support it. __________________ Mal: Define "interesting"? Wash: "Oh, God, oh, God, we're all gonna die"?

12-05-2008, 22:10	#5
Mark Screaming Orgasm Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Newbury Posts: 15,194	I also remember the 11plus and being totally un-stressed about it all. Mind you, I didn't tend to get that stressed out by exams anyway (probably why I did so badly at A levels - Uni didn't count as I was a dirty swot there). It's certainly a shame that the whole school mentality now seems to revolve around exams and tests, and how pupils 'must' do well - consequences be damned, but I guess that was an inevitable result of the whole league tables thing. As for the original question, I have no idea where most politicians (not just MPs) originate from and live, but in a lot of cases it doesn't seem to bear any relationship to what the rest of us experience. Last edited by Mark; 12-05-2008 at 22:13.

12-05-2008, 22:23	#7
Pebs Easymouth Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 6,716	I have to say my lack of quals has hindered me once, but then I did stuff up my GCSEs quite spectacularly due to naughtiness. I was so bad I had to do my exams in the stationary cupboard lol! In hindsight though I dont really think good results would have changed my path at all. __________________ ...faster you naughty little monkey! Running through hell, heaven can wait!

13-05-2008, 07:40	#10
Dymetrie A large glass of Merlot Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Letchworth with a Lightsaber Posts: 5,819	I've been keeping an eye on this over the past few days (can pretty much pick up BBC1 and Dave on freeview... thank SMEG for Dave!) and it's left me somewhat flaberghasted. It's a sorry state of affairs that the Government feels the need to stress children out just so that they can categorise the abilities of schools and teachers. The main problem with it is that exams are rubbish. They don't show which pupils are most capable at a subject, they show which pupils are most capable at remembering loads of stuff which they'll have forgotten again after a few weeks and will never use again. Coursework and projects are much better indicators and also create much less stress. Pretty much the only subject path I followed in my educational career which assists me in my current professional career is English. And even that I attribute more to being well read outside of school... __________________ Khef, Ka and Ka-Tet....

12-05-2008, 21:19	#2
Dee Combat Spanker Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 5,292	Bugger Karyn, I can remember getting stressed doing my GCSE's, but it would seem I wasnt under as much pressure as your kids, thats just bloody awful

12-05-2008, 22:04	#4
jmc41 Absinthe Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,070	It's all going mad, I didn't get homework until year 6 and that was only for a major project, mainly started and secondary school. I skipped out on year 6 sats, took the year 9 ones but didn't really care about them as that was a long long time ago. Just missed out of the AS/A2 thing, but from what I saw they cram most of the easy stuff into the first year leaving a huge amount of complex stuff for the second year so even if you get through the AS course and do okay there is worse to come rather than spending two years properly learning it all and only having to worry about mocks in the middle.

12-05-2008, 22:18	#6
Dee Combat Spanker Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 5,292	Who can honestly say their exam results (as in SAT's and GCSE's) have helped them get where they are now? Not a single person I know has thanked their exams results for getting them a job, its almost like they never exisited

13-05-2008, 06:44	#9
jmc41 Absinthe Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,070	My SATs did nothing as far as I can tell, but my good GCSE results probably helped get me into Uni and my current job due to atrocious A-levels and a "not quite as good as I'd have liked" degree result.